Esteban32696
New member
9mm is the most popular round in the World & will be for many years to come.
Why is the 9mm so popular in Europe?
- Thread starter 45ACPShooter
- Start date
For the bulk of the 20th century the .38 SPL was the king of centerfire handgun cartridges, by sales, in the US. Also led the pack in reloading die sales as well. It wasn't until the last decade of the 20th century that the 9mm passed the 38 SPL in sales.
Want an interesting trip through history (if you aren't old enough to have loved it)? Find some old gun magazines from the 1950s and up. (Older ones are much more rare), and just look through them. Look at the articles and the ads. Truly an eye opener, both about the changes in firearms technology, and attitudes.
Today, I gave a friend a present, a nearly mint copy of Guns & Ammo from the month and year he was born (10/59). Today, you can't pick up a gun mag that covers handguns without at least one mention of the 9mm (not counting the ads). It didn't use to be that way. I have a collection of a large percentage of the G&A, Shooting Times, and American Rifleman covering the last half century (not to mention living through it), along with lots of other magazines like Handgunner, GUn World, etc. Things have really, really changed in the last 25 years, and if you don't know it, you ought to take the time to find out.
9mm Luger (and I still call it that, a rose by any other name....) is king today, and very likely going to stay that way until we pass beyond cartridge firearms for peace keeping use. Because it does work well enough (and better today than in the past for the best loads), and there is a huge fiscal investment in it, worldwide.
As to comparing the numbers made/sold between smaller calibers and bigger ones, there are lots of other factors involved than just bore size, in popularity. Americans are big bore enthusiasts, the numbers of cartridges and guns made and sold in big bore calibers prooves this, beyond doubt. What we aren't is big bore enthusiasts to the exclusion of all else.
I know some folks who are big bore guys, won't consider anything under .40 as useful (other than the .357, and sometimes not even that), but you know what?, nearly every one of them has a .22LR. Often, more than one.
The most dedicated big bore fan might also own a .32, .380, .38 or 9mm as a back up or CCW gun. And lots of folks who aren't big bore enthusiasts might own a .45 or a .44 in their collection along with many smaller guns.
I'm not a 9mm guy for my personal defense. I like the big bores (.45 mostly) for that, although lately I have learned that there is also value and use to smaller rounds in pocket guns. And I own (currently) 5 pistols in 9mm Luger. 3 of them are historical pieces. A P.08, a P.38, and a Broomhandle Mauser. And a T/C barrel in 9mm. After years of sneering at the 9mm (and not without reason), I have finally seen the light. I no longer sneer.
I'm not an advocate, for my uses there are better choices, but not always a lot better...Today, 9mm ammo is not what it was 40 years ago (US made) and foreign ammo is common. All those years of 9mm vs .45 articles still have some valid points, but not as many as they used to have.
I frequently check out things from the few old magazines and publications I have, just to get a different perspective on things. While it might surprise you what things were already being talked about 50 years ago, there are significant differences.
There was little about concealed carry, even though some very good books had already been written on the subject. Chic Gaylord comes to mind here. Most of the articles were about hunting, it seems, with some do-it-yourself projects now and then. There were occasional articles about the police and the military but 50 years ago, they were on the cusp of some changes.
Easily some of the most interesting things are the advertisments. It was a golden age of surplus firearms. Lots of ads from companies in California, too. All of what we now call classic handguns were still available, at least they were listed in catalogs. I wonder just how many you could actually find in a sporting goods store or guns shop.
Not many new cartridges around to talk about 50 years ago, although the .44 magnum had already appeared. But I think the real interest in the cartridge came maybe ten years later. The .308 and the .243 were around and already popular but the .223 was a year or two into the future. And just like now, there was something new and hot every now and then, that went nowhere. Anybody know what a tround is?
There was little about concealed carry, even though some very good books had already been written on the subject. Chic Gaylord comes to mind here. Most of the articles were about hunting, it seems, with some do-it-yourself projects now and then. There were occasional articles about the police and the military but 50 years ago, they were on the cusp of some changes.
Easily some of the most interesting things are the advertisments. It was a golden age of surplus firearms. Lots of ads from companies in California, too. All of what we now call classic handguns were still available, at least they were listed in catalogs. I wonder just how many you could actually find in a sporting goods store or guns shop.
Not many new cartridges around to talk about 50 years ago, although the .44 magnum had already appeared. But I think the real interest in the cartridge came maybe ten years later. The .308 and the .243 were around and already popular but the .223 was a year or two into the future. And just like now, there was something new and hot every now and then, that went nowhere. Anybody know what a tround is?
peacefulgary
New member
I wonder how much military service plays a role?
And I wonder how many who have served simple adopted the weapon they used while they served?
From 1911 till the 1980's the US military used the .45ACP M1911.
I'm sure that many of those who served between those years, who were exposed or trained to use the M1911, also sought out that weapon once they were no longer active military.
Likewise, I'm sure that many of those who served in European military forces, who were exposed or trained to use a 9mm handgun, also sought out that weapon once they were no longer active military.
Even in the US there are plenty of prior service military vets and military retirees who actually like the Beretta and choose it even in civilian life.
And there are quite a few European nations where military service is still mandatory, unlike today's all volunteer US military.
And I wonder how many who have served simple adopted the weapon they used while they served?
From 1911 till the 1980's the US military used the .45ACP M1911.
I'm sure that many of those who served between those years, who were exposed or trained to use the M1911, also sought out that weapon once they were no longer active military.
Likewise, I'm sure that many of those who served in European military forces, who were exposed or trained to use a 9mm handgun, also sought out that weapon once they were no longer active military.
Even in the US there are plenty of prior service military vets and military retirees who actually like the Beretta and choose it even in civilian life.
And there are quite a few European nations where military service is still mandatory, unlike today's all volunteer US military.
Wogpotter gets a gold star.
I was "exposed" to a .45 auto when I was in the service, as well as .45 caliber submachine guns and M-60 machine guns but never trained on any of them. I served in Europe and actually owned a Luger and a Browning Hi-Power while I was there. So my exposure to 9mm handguns was just as great as anything else. It was 20 years before I acquired my first .45 automatic.
I was "exposed" to a .45 auto when I was in the service, as well as .45 caliber submachine guns and M-60 machine guns but never trained on any of them. I served in Europe and actually owned a Luger and a Browning Hi-Power while I was there. So my exposure to 9mm handguns was just as great as anything else. It was 20 years before I acquired my first .45 automatic.
dutchgunsmoke
New member
Quote by 44 AMP
And another thing about European police, they have a historical tradition of being able to shoot first, and ask questions later, if they are interested in asking questions. In the US we have a long history of questioning authority, police included. Eurpoeans do not. Our police shooting get investigated, and we require the police to proove why they had to shoot. Over there, the police are generally assumed to be in the right, and you have to proove otherwise!
Unquote
Now, that sounds a bit strange for someone who lives in a country where a policeofficer will be under investigation the minute he draws his pistol. Note that he hasn't even fired it yet. The minute a policeman in the Netherlands makes his gun exit his holster he must report this and an inquiry will follow if the action by the officer can be justified. So the history of "shoot first, ask questions later" - no idea where that comes from but most cetrainly not from Holland. Questioning authority is not a US-monopoly held attitude.
As for 9mm in the Netherlands: Dutch police have announced recently that they will adopt a new sidearm for the entire LEO-communitiy (except the military police who'll stick by there Glocks). It's the Sig-Sauer PPNL. In short - a Sig P250 with some modifications. When the specs for this gun were laid out, caliber was never a question. 9mm. But not because it would be cheap. Dutch police have a history of having there bullets custom made.
And another thing about European police, they have a historical tradition of being able to shoot first, and ask questions later, if they are interested in asking questions. In the US we have a long history of questioning authority, police included. Eurpoeans do not. Our police shooting get investigated, and we require the police to proove why they had to shoot. Over there, the police are generally assumed to be in the right, and you have to proove otherwise!
Unquote
Now, that sounds a bit strange for someone who lives in a country where a policeofficer will be under investigation the minute he draws his pistol. Note that he hasn't even fired it yet. The minute a policeman in the Netherlands makes his gun exit his holster he must report this and an inquiry will follow if the action by the officer can be justified. So the history of "shoot first, ask questions later" - no idea where that comes from but most cetrainly not from Holland. Questioning authority is not a US-monopoly held attitude.
As for 9mm in the Netherlands: Dutch police have announced recently that they will adopt a new sidearm for the entire LEO-communitiy (except the military police who'll stick by there Glocks). It's the Sig-Sauer PPNL. In short - a Sig P250 with some modifications. When the specs for this gun were laid out, caliber was never a question. 9mm. But not because it would be cheap. Dutch police have a history of having there bullets custom made.