Why is everything based on Defense?

Why is everything based on Defense?

Not long back the SW forum was reorganized into more distinct sections. One for Hand Ejectors from 1896 to 1961. The next for Revolvers from 1961 to 1980. The next from 1980 to now. There is also a section for their pistols. The tenor of the discussion in each follows predictable lines and is mostly generational. Put it another way the discussions of "stopping power", the "Best rounds for self defense", "9mm vs. 40", "Best place to carry concealed", etc. are mostly in the new guns section and are mostly posted and followed by younger or newer shooters. Not always but mostly.

Shooting for the pleasure of it is actually what most folks buy more than one or two guns for. I believe this is true even if a fella don't like to admit it.

But it's the "self defense" aspect of it that is "sexy" from the point of view of marketing. Ad men aim at certain demographics. Young men are one. "High speed, low drag guns" (even when they are not cuz they have many gizmos attached to them), and the magazines that feature them, sell.

Is it all about "defense"? Well it really depends on where you look. To the casual viewer it may look like it but look a bit more. Seems to me there really is more out there.

tipoc
 
I'd guess its because the fasted growing market of gun sales is concealed carry guns. With something like 47 states allowing some form of CCW and with the amount of CCW holders growing daily, gun makers are tapping into this market. In my CCW class, a 60+ year old lady was taking the class and had bought a snub nose for her CCW piece. She wasn't a sport shooter, but she was a gun owner.

To your point however, it is nice to focus on hunting and shooting sports rather than what many perceive as the darker side of guns.
 
Wow, this is a subject I've thought about a lot. I agree with most of the posters, the market for guns these days, especially handguns, is primarily a market for defensive weapons. I'm quite sure that sales of plastic framed pistols, Glocks, M & Ps, etc., dominate the handgun sales market and that nearly all of them are bought by people who fantasize about defending themselves with them. The gun magazines are both following that trend and encouraging it by focusing mostly on defensive guns.

The question is: why are so many of these guns being sold? It cannot be because most people face even a reasonably high probability of being put in a situation where they could legally use a handgun to defend themselves. Crime statistics suggest that violent crime is less of a problem today than it has been in decades. Most of that crime is concentrated in communities that the vast majority of us don't live in or seldom visit. I won't hazard a guess as to whether any individual's likelihood of being put in a situation where he or she could legally justify using a handgun for self defense is less than or greater than that same person's chance of being struck by lightning, but the odds of it happening to any individual are assuredly very, very small.

But, if folks' actual risk of being put in harm's way is very small their perception of the likelihood of such risk may be much higher. We live in a society where a lot of profit can be made out of frightening people. Stories about crime sell soap and elect politicians. Decade after decade of scare stories about our unsafe streets have had an effect, even if the perception of lack of safety greatly exceeds the reality.

Also, guns empower people. People who are facing uncertain economic times and who are under a great deal of stress in their personal lives may feel a little more secure by possessing a gun.

Personally, I'm an avid shooter. But, I have no illusions about my sport. I shoot because it's fun and because I find it to be challenging. My primary interest lies in improving my shooting. I don't restrict myself to "target" guns. Several of the handguns that I own were built as defensive weapons. But, I use them as target guns and I really can't envision a likely scenario in which I'll ever need to use any of them to defend myself.

To each his or her own, I say. I don't begrudge those who want to own guns for potential self defense just so long as they stay within the limits of the law. I'm happy shooting for the fun of it. But, I also have no illusions about why I own guns and why I enjoy shooting them.
 
My guess is because that's where the market is. When it comes right down to it, there are really only two basic reasons to own a firearm: defense and sport. With the majority of the population living in more urban areas, there simply isn't the demand for sporting guns that there once was because most people don't live in close proximity to a place to partake of such a sport. Self-Defense, however, is a universal need whether you live in the middle of downtown or the middle of nowhere. Also, the market has grown due to the greater number of states issuing CC permits. The sporting shotgun and the target revolver may make fine nightstand guns, but they don't conceal very well now that your state finally passed a right to carry law.
 
This is simple semantics. People have some strange need to use a word to describe an object that doesn't really mean anything but sounds "cool." This is a favorite of the anti gun crowd who like to scare the uninformed and those incapable of thinking for themselves. Unfortuantely they would seem to be in the majority these days. Most people in this country will believe almost anything.
 
The question is: why are so many of these guns being sold? It cannot be because most people face even a reasonably high probability of being put in a situation where they could legally use a handgun to defend themselves.

Nor do most people face "even a reasonably high" probability of needing to use or benefit from the presence of a lightning rod, smoke or carbon monoxide detector, fire extinguisher, poison antidote, emergency generator, surge protector, or auto airbag, but many people purchase these things, some impact insurance rates, and some are legally required.

The question is not one of probability alone. In any risk management strategy, one must take into account both the likelihood of a risk occurring and the severity of the potential consequences. Being killed by carbon monoxide from a faulty furnace is extremely unlikely, but should it occur, it would be extremely serious. Most people judge that one cannot reasonably afford to ignore that risk.

Same thing regarding defensive strategy, in my mind.

Crime statistics suggest that violent crime is less of a problem today than it has been in decades.

True. The decline coincided with the advent of mandatory sentencing. By the way, a lot of the VCAs who have been sequestered are going to be getting out soon. Any predictions?

Most of that crime is concentrated in communities that the vast majority of us don't live in or seldom visit.

And that happens to be where the population is concentrated. What about per capita stats? And by the way, VCAs are very mobile these days. Yah can't get away from it.

I won't hazard a guess as to whether any individual's likelihood of being put in a situation where he or she could legally justify using a handgun for self defense is less than or greater than that same person's chance of being struck by lightning, but the odds of it happening to any individual are assuredly very, very small.

Well, an analysis of twenty years of data compiled a decade ago indicated an annual murder death total of 16,000 for the U.S., vs. 90 people killed per year by lightning. Does that help?

But the real question, I think, may not lie in how many people are killed, but in how many deaths or serious injuries might be prevented by the presence of legally owned weapons. And that cannot be realiably estimated.

Why? Take deterrence, as one aspect alone. There are, as I understand it, over half a million people licensed to carry concealed in Florida alone. How many violent crimes are not even attempted because the intended victim may be armed cannot be measured from crime statistics because there are too many other variables. Interviews of incarcerated felons do indicate that many fear the armed citizen more than the police, however.

With the exception of some SD training, every shot I have fired since 1956 was associated entirely with recreation: plinking, target, skeet, trap, and a small amount of hunting.

On three occasions, I have legally used a handgun to defend myself and others from home invaders, two of them very violent. I did not have to shoot. Had I not been armed, the consequences would almost certainly include my not being here to post this note.

I've never been struck by lightning, but I've known three families whose houses were struck.
 
Well i guess you would consider a SEECAMP a defensive pistol.Or JEWERLY. IT looks good and will do the JOB if required .But not the best choice by some people.BUT it goes with me always.:D
 
Our heroes had really black, mean looking guns so I'd say many young men may gravitate towards a "tactical" weapon, even for hunting.
Hell yea! I grew up watching Lethal Weapon not Stagecoach. My first handguns were a Colt 1911A1 and a Beretta 92. My first centerfire was a Colt AR-15... the "good guy guns." I am cleaning a Sig 226 while I type this.

As far as the gun vs weapon conversation goes, I don't like the term weapon. I use it from time to time but usually in a sarcastic way. ie "My anti-popcan-weapon"

I occasionally drag my friends out and we do some "defensive" drills. This is the only way I have found to get them to improve their shooting. Just casual shooting doesn't encourage much improvement. Noise for the sake of noise.

"Defense" in the gun publications is sensationalism. Bad guys are gonna get you! You gotta get them first and you gotta get 'em good!

For what it is worth. My dad was sort of anti-gun, he had some but was not crazy about them. His only repeater was an 03-A3, loaded with soft points, it was his "weapon of choice." Very politically correct for our area and no less deadly than my AR-15. It was on hand for defense pure and simple.
 
Being part of the older generation, all of my revolvers and semi-autos were chosen for their classic design (eye appeal) and use of traditional materials (metal and wood). That includes target guns, IDPA guns, and carry guns. It's true that I have compromised to the extent that some have grips made of rubber or elk horn, but I will never be tempted to jump on the bandwagon for polymer frame guns. If that makes me a "gun snob", so be it.
 
Hell yea! I grew up watching Lethal Weapon not Stagecoach. My first handguns were a Colt 1911A1 and a Beretta 92.

So I guess you're more of a Mel Gibson than a Danny Glover (he carried a S&W M19 in Lethal Weapon as I remember).

I guess that I'm just odd in the fact that I'm younger than many here (22) yet I still like DA revolvers and more 'vintage' autos the best.
 
There are some really interesting answers here. I also find the following link interesting and maybe a defensive posture is more important than I formally thought. According to this article, my wife and I are now considered terrorists.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/

The first article named people to be watched. I think it was also in this newspaper.:eek: It is also posted by Beentown71 here.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3437672&posted=1#post3437672
 
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I'm a right wing extremist for supporting Ron Paul and then the Constitution party. Yet I passed a background check for my Glock only a month ago.

The Government using official protocol in an effort to discourage any legal political activity should be criminal, and the heads of the DHS should be in jail right now.
 
I have noticed over the years that we no longer see guns for the pure enjoyment of shooting. Everything, especially in advertisment for new guns, is either tactical or for somekind of other defensive purpose.

The firearms manufactureres don't make handguns for target shooting or hunting anymore, that seems to be put on the backburner. Just about every magazine writes about the latest plastic auto and how it will hold a hundred rounds of ammo. It has rails for flashlights and other doodads that are needed when the bad guy comes. They act like there is a bad guy lurking behind every bush and unless you have the latest in tactical gear, he will get you.

Even on the forums, talk of home defense or on the road protection is a top post. Let's face it, 90% of the people who own guns will never be in a situation where one is needed. That is not to say that we shouldn't prepare for such an occasion, it simply means that we should not spend all of our time worrying about whether or not we will see daylight tomorrow morning.

When I used to buy guns (when they still made quality products), I bought them not only to use, but the beauty of the craftsmanship. It always amazed me that something so useful could be so beautiful to behold. Now all I see is plastic (with mold lines) and cheap products at high prices. I kind of miss the old days.

I only see a small % of your point.

I read your post, now I hope you read mine.
 
I still have a few gun magazines from the late 1950's. I think they are all "Guns." In one issue there was a letter from someone who said he had started to buy up ammo and has got a surplus rifle. This was apparently in response to some article in a previous issue that I don't have and don't remember. So the trend to think defensively about an invasion or something started 50 years ago. That's interesting to think about. We are apt to think of the late 1950's as mild and stable, free from anxiety and so on. It was hardly like that and nothing improved in the 1960's either. I don't remember the 20's, 30's or 40's.

Remember when Shooting Times came out, in the large format and the crinkly paper used for the cover?
 
emphasis

True. The emphasis on this site, as well as others, tends toward combat of some sort or other. Marketing is big business in that arena.
A case in point - that FNP .45 USG mentioned earlier. A nice gun, I'm sure, and while it may be used by it's owner for target shooting, it is not a "target" pistol nor is it adaptable in the same sense that a 1911 is. I am fairly sure that, if one were to travel to the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, you'd have a hard time finding an FNP on that long shooting line (of course, that's Bullseye shooting).
Pure target pistols or pistols accurized for precision shooting -especially in CF calibers - are not nearly as well advertised, probably because the market is smaller and
Our sport is in decline. There is no getting around it.
Yes. I am just finishing a weekly series of Bullseye gallery matches that started in September. Each year there are fewer and fewer shooters. At this point, we are just making a team.
 
what am I missing?

I peruse recent catalogs, and see a wide variety of choices for every use.

I receive numerous e-mails, asking questions on all aspects of launching projectiles.

I suggest to the OP one sees what one wants......
 
The advertising and the articles in the 1950s and 1960s were in large part about plinking, target shooting, varmint shooting, big game shooting, hunting of upland birds and waterfowl, skeet and trap, bench rest to some extent, handloading, and gun collecting.
I Was a kid in the 50s and 60s, and we slept with the windows open and the doors unlocked. Violent crime and home invasions were very rare...times have changed a lot!

That said, you can still find many guns for all purposes listed above...they're not rare. I love my Ruger #1, but I wouldn't go for that 1st for a BG breaking into my home. And all those who stated more ccws being issued are correct. Face it, even those who own mostly sporting arms, are very aware of the crime rate now days. Thus the wide variety of EBRs ect...people are tired of being victims on the nightly news, and having more laws to protect the criminals than the law abiding citizen. Just my 2 cents...
 
Very few folks needed to lock their doors until color tvs became commonplace. Nobody had anything worth stealing except food maybe, or a pair of shoes. Nobody bothered walking off with a black and white tv just to go watch 3 channels. And I lived in downtown Baltimore from '55 to '62. Those old tvs didn't have much pawn value and neither did the old record changers with the little fold-out wing speakers.

What, you think you'd risk getting arrested for walking in on somebody to steal their rotary phone? That's a phone with a dial on it. You know, that's where the phrase "dial a number" came from.

Seriously.

Then people started accumulating more junk later in the '60s and '70s and then the crack epidemic hit and all heck broke loose.

Picked up my new FNP-45 USG and showed it to my father this morning. I was SHOCKED, he liked it so much he said he wished he'd had one in WWII instead of the Colt he was issued. :eek: :eek: And he liked the Colt much better than the off-brand 1911s he had initially before he pulled a couple of strings/did some favors.

John
 
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