Why is everything based on Defense?
- Thread starter jhco50
- Start date
Because every week or so it seems there is another mass shooting.
If some idiot breaks up with his girlfriend, or gets fired from a job, or you happen to cut him off in traffic, there is a potential for violence.
The inability of government to protect its citizens means that people must learn to protect themselves.
I'll admit that I bought most of my firearms with the intent of being prepared to use them to kill. I think that much of that goes with me being a soldier and the mindset that goes along with being trained to deliberately kill other men, often offensively rather than as a defensive measure.
I don't think of my .22's or even my 12 guage primarily as weapons. I do enjoy plinking and punching paper, even with my ARs, AKs, and FALS. I hardly shoot my milsurps anymore, I mostly just enjoy handling them and reflecting on the history and story behind them.
I have airsoft and pellet guns. I don't refer to them as weapons because they don't have the potential to be used to take or defend a life.
I make a point of reinforcing to my kids though, that firearms are weapons. They aren't toys and their lethal aspect can't be forgotten or diminished. Whether you intend to kill someone or not, when you point a weapon at someone or something, it must be remembered that you are committing a potentially life taking act.
Keeping in mind that firearms kill people and reinforcing it is a safety precaution, and a good thing.
I don't think of my .22's or even my 12 guage primarily as weapons. I do enjoy plinking and punching paper, even with my ARs, AKs, and FALS. I hardly shoot my milsurps anymore, I mostly just enjoy handling them and reflecting on the history and story behind them.
I have airsoft and pellet guns. I don't refer to them as weapons because they don't have the potential to be used to take or defend a life.
I make a point of reinforcing to my kids though, that firearms are weapons. They aren't toys and their lethal aspect can't be forgotten or diminished. Whether you intend to kill someone or not, when you point a weapon at someone or something, it must be remembered that you are committing a potentially life taking act.
Keeping in mind that firearms kill people and reinforcing it is a safety precaution, and a good thing.
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Glenn E. Meyer said:
I think that culture may be developing into a cultural "need for power," where people love to read about and own manstoppers even though they don't plan on using them - in the same way almost every law-abiding citizen wants a car that goes 4 times the maximum posted speed limit.
Aesthetically speaking, I, as part of the younger generation, don't always find the old style of gun appealing either. We didn't grow up watching westerns. Our heroes had really black, mean looking guns so I'd say many young men may gravitate towards a "tactical" weapon, even for hunting.
My firearm enthusiasm stems from a fascination with ballistics. My want list includes many mean-looking manstoppers, none of which I really believe would save me better than running and hiding if two men kicked down my door with intent to kill me. That is why I put off trying a handgun until mid 20's. After I tried them, I decided to collect after I found target shooting (and melon shooting) quite enjoyable, so now I'm more of a plinker who uses mostly a .22 to save money, but I'll always like (and talk about and collect) those manstoppers.
Mannlicher
New member
jhco50, even in 'the old days', it was about defense first and foremost.
I have carried for 25 years atleast and hunted for around 40. I shoot for fun, it doesn't matter if its on the line at the local range or running around as fast as my old broke down body will carry me in a uspsa match, it's just fun. I do sometimes take my carry guns in to get a bit of real time with them but just to be sure me and the guns are still think'n alike, then i put them back in there hideing spots to say ,,hopfuly. I do see to many newbe's that only shot there ccw guns and act to caught up in the ccw wave thats out now. I do feel that after shooting some with the local indoor uspsa group has opened my eyes even more as how to move and shot better than i even could have before. AND the tread question WHY IS EVERTHING BASED ON DEFENSE?? If you think offence you could be going to jail.... You must react not act.
OldMarksman
Staff
The advertising and the articles in the 1950s and 1960s were in large part about plinking, target shooting, varmint shooting, big game shooting, hunting of upland birds and waterfowl, skeet and trap, bench rest to some extent, handloading, and gun collecting.
You can certainly still find articles on those subjects, and there's a good deal of discussion on the various fora here. One new development is the introduction of television shows such as Guns and Ammo and American Rifleman TV and the ones on hunting.
There have been two major additions in recent years: cowboy action shooting and personal defense.
Why the latter? What changed? I think that was the question.
Well, one thing that has changed is the issuance of concealed carry permits in a lot of states, many of them heavily populated. Probably resulted in many cases from issues with crime, and much of that may have to do with an influx of drugs.
The increase in CCW, and a parallel increase in home defense concerns (you didn't see a lot of ads for home security systems fifty years ago, either), has brought about a demand for new products, which has resulted in the introduction of new guns. Hence the advertising and the articles.
That increase has brought with it an extremely important attendant need for the proper understanding of how to effectively, safely, and legally employ the new firearms, pepper sprays, flashlights, etc. Hence the articles, discussions, and shows in the subject.
My take, anyway.
You can certainly still find articles on those subjects, and there's a good deal of discussion on the various fora here. One new development is the introduction of television shows such as Guns and Ammo and American Rifleman TV and the ones on hunting.
There have been two major additions in recent years: cowboy action shooting and personal defense.
Why the latter? What changed? I think that was the question.
Well, one thing that has changed is the issuance of concealed carry permits in a lot of states, many of them heavily populated. Probably resulted in many cases from issues with crime, and much of that may have to do with an influx of drugs.
The increase in CCW, and a parallel increase in home defense concerns (you didn't see a lot of ads for home security systems fifty years ago, either), has brought about a demand for new products, which has resulted in the introduction of new guns. Hence the advertising and the articles.
That increase has brought with it an extremely important attendant need for the proper understanding of how to effectively, safely, and legally employ the new firearms, pepper sprays, flashlights, etc. Hence the articles, discussions, and shows in the subject.
My take, anyway.
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
OldMarksman said:
You hit the nail on the head I think!
I grew up in Tennessee. It was darn near impossible to carry a weapon for defense legally. After I retired from the military and came back home I was shocked (pleasantly) to see that Tennessee was now a "shall issue" state. This trend in the other states has really produced an industry and firearms manufacturers follow the money. There are still target pitols but the real money seems to be in SD.
"Do you say "I bought a new gun" or do you say "I bought a new weapon?" "
The first person I called to tell about it heard the word pistol. That was my father; he's 87 and still prefers revolvers - Pythons and Smiths from the 30s and 40s.
__________
"Well, one thing that has changed is the issuance of concealed carry permits in a lot of states, many of them heavily populated."
Many folks carried for decades and it wasn't a big deal and wasn't ever mentioned - they just did it.
For instance, I have my grandfather's Iver-J .32 and he was born in 1891. I have my great-uncle Ed's S&W topbreak .38 made in 1884 and a few others of slightly more recent vintage that belonged to other relatives. These folks stuck a gun in their pocket or purse everyday and went about their business. They didn't involve themselves in show and tell gun sessions and certainly never read a gun magazine on concealed carry.
My father was more of what we new think of as a gun person after serving in WWII and being a State Trooper. His younger brother was and is the family gun trader. I don't trade, I just buy.
Things were different back then; guns were more of a tool and less of a fad.
John
The first person I called to tell about it heard the word pistol. That was my father; he's 87 and still prefers revolvers - Pythons and Smiths from the 30s and 40s.
__________
"Well, one thing that has changed is the issuance of concealed carry permits in a lot of states, many of them heavily populated."
Many folks carried for decades and it wasn't a big deal and wasn't ever mentioned - they just did it.
For instance, I have my grandfather's Iver-J .32 and he was born in 1891. I have my great-uncle Ed's S&W topbreak .38 made in 1884 and a few others of slightly more recent vintage that belonged to other relatives. These folks stuck a gun in their pocket or purse everyday and went about their business. They didn't involve themselves in show and tell gun sessions and certainly never read a gun magazine on concealed carry.
My father was more of what we new think of as a gun person after serving in WWII and being a State Trooper. His younger brother was and is the family gun trader. I don't trade, I just buy.
Things were different back then; guns were more of a tool and less of a fad.
John
Why is everything based on defense?
Its not at my house. Yeah I carry a little 642 in my pocket, but 90% of my firearms are strickly target rifles. A few old guns that are just plain fun to shoot (44 Russian, 25-20 Rem Pump, etc). A few hunting rifles, and some heavy rifles. I wouldnt want to have to turn down an invite to go to Africa cause I don't have a gun.
But overall my guns are geared toward target shooting. Mostly High Power/1000 yard matches. Some small bore and Bullseye for pistols.
I'm retired now, I just want to shoot for the pure enjoyment now. I don't even take my compitition shooting serious anymore. I change my 1000 yard guns like most people change socks.
I still build rifles a bit now, but mostly hunting rifles for my kids and grandkids.
And some wierd stuff just to see if it will work.
Its not at my house. Yeah I carry a little 642 in my pocket, but 90% of my firearms are strickly target rifles. A few old guns that are just plain fun to shoot (44 Russian, 25-20 Rem Pump, etc). A few hunting rifles, and some heavy rifles. I wouldnt want to have to turn down an invite to go to Africa cause I don't have a gun.
But overall my guns are geared toward target shooting. Mostly High Power/1000 yard matches. Some small bore and Bullseye for pistols.
I'm retired now, I just want to shoot for the pure enjoyment now. I don't even take my compitition shooting serious anymore. I change my 1000 yard guns like most people change socks.
I still build rifles a bit now, but mostly hunting rifles for my kids and grandkids.
And some wierd stuff just to see if it will work.
The mfgs have figured out there are more city people with money than rural people and have finally found a market for them. Bring it on I say, at the current rate firearm owners could substantaily grow in number in the next 10 years. And thats that many more people who wont turn them in.
I learned to shoot in the military, having been raised in a relatively anti-gun household. Thusly, I tend to refer to my guns as 'weapons' as was ingrained in me in boot camp. I am also, for reference, in my late 20's and am part of the aforementioned 'younger generation'. That said, my primary goal in selecting and shooting my firearms is to be a better marksman and to pass these skills on to my kids, when I have some. When I got out of the service I lived in a pretty dicey area so my first purchase was very defense minded, a short barreled shotgun nearly identical to the 'weapon' I used on guard duty, but with wood furniture. My next purchase was a heavily used Ruger Security six that I purchased to practice the finer arts of marksmanship. Along the way I picked up some old Mosin-Nagants and a vintage Remington .22, which are the 'guns' I shoot the most these days, because they are challenging and have a history.
alienbogey
New member
This is a small point, but I think that the tendency to use the word "weapon" versus "gun" depends on one's background, whether military/LEO or civilian.
Two examples: Yesterday I went to a paintball game with my son on a military post. During a break a fellow player who - by his age, fitness and haircut was Army - asked to look at my "weapon" because his "weapon", of the same make and model, was malfunctioning. He was talking about a paintball marker, not a firearm.
Second example: I recently attended the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and every instructor, without exception, referred to the firearms as "weapons". To them it was a mark of professionalism to do so.
This is not a criticism of talking about "guns", just an observation.
Two examples: Yesterday I went to a paintball game with my son on a military post. During a break a fellow player who - by his age, fitness and haircut was Army - asked to look at my "weapon" because his "weapon", of the same make and model, was malfunctioning. He was talking about a paintball marker, not a firearm.
Second example: I recently attended the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and every instructor, without exception, referred to the firearms as "weapons". To them it was a mark of professionalism to do so.
This is not a criticism of talking about "guns", just an observation.
No offense but that is simply not true. I have seen a ton of gun magazines do numerous write ups on target and hunting guns and rifles. Hunting is an entire sub-culture for crying out loud and there are even magazines almost exclusively dedicated to it.
The average production guns made today are way better quality than ones made years ago. This is because manufacturing technology and science have improved drastically.
If nobody is making "fun guns" anymore, how do you explain the recent intro of THIS:
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=4901&return=Y
I can think of no deliberate tactical application of that thing. In an emergency, well yeah, it's a gun...but...other than that?
Are "tacticool" guns dominant in the market? Yeah. But life has NEVER been better for SA/western-style shooters. Armi Chiappa just joined in with Winchester '92 clones that are getting rave reviews plus they make a .22LR trainer gun that's a dead accurate SA replica (size and heft) for less than $200. USFA is making SAs as good as Colt *ever* did, and if you're on a budget you can get one just as good with a plain finish. Ruger's SA product line has never been broader and Freedom Arms is selling everything they can make.
Savage is making traditional rifles with killer adjustable triggers. Marlin is making all kinds of great leverguns.
I could on for miles about the CZ and other Euro rifles, etc...
Basically, nobody has any right to complain. THIS is the golden age, guys.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=4901&return=Y
I can think of no deliberate tactical application of that thing. In an emergency, well yeah, it's a gun...but...other than that?
Are "tacticool" guns dominant in the market? Yeah. But life has NEVER been better for SA/western-style shooters. Armi Chiappa just joined in with Winchester '92 clones that are getting rave reviews plus they make a .22LR trainer gun that's a dead accurate SA replica (size and heft) for less than $200. USFA is making SAs as good as Colt *ever* did, and if you're on a budget you can get one just as good with a plain finish. Ruger's SA product line has never been broader and Freedom Arms is selling everything they can make.
Savage is making traditional rifles with killer adjustable triggers. Marlin is making all kinds of great leverguns.
I could on for miles about the CZ and other Euro rifles, etc...
Basically, nobody has any right to complain. THIS is the golden age, guys.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Encore?
Ruger 77/44
Charger
Blackhawks
The products are definitely still out there. Some being reintroduced or introduced new also. NOt many new b/c I think it is pretty hard to come up with better target and hunting designs.
Deer haven't changed much in the last hundred years and neither has paper or steel gongs.
Another thing that has changed, is the places to go "fun shoot". In our area, things have changed drastically in the last 10, 20, or 30 years as to how easy it is to go somewhere and plink. And I don't think it is just my area.
I live in what would still be considered rural country, but now there is a home built within rifle-shot of almost anywhere you turn. Land that was once privately owned, but left open to the public is now fenced and posted.
In the time that I have been a shooter, about 40 yrs., it has gone from shoot almost anywhere to shoot almost nowhere, and I bet it is about the same most places.
If you take this into consideration, the emphasis on how we use our guns is bound to change. And I can't say that I like the change.
jd
I live in what would still be considered rural country, but now there is a home built within rifle-shot of almost anywhere you turn. Land that was once privately owned, but left open to the public is now fenced and posted.
In the time that I have been a shooter, about 40 yrs., it has gone from shoot almost anywhere to shoot almost nowhere, and I bet it is about the same most places.
If you take this into consideration, the emphasis on how we use our guns is bound to change. And I can't say that I like the change.
jd