Why is everything based on Defense?

J

jhco50

Moderator
I have noticed over the years that we no longer see guns for the pure enjoyment of shooting. Everything, especially in advertisment for new guns, is either tactical or for somekind of other defensive purpose.

The firearms manufactureres don't make handguns for target shooting or hunting anymore, that seems to be put on the backburner. Just about every magazine writes about the latest plastic auto and how it will hold a hundred rounds of ammo. It has rails for flashlights and other doodads that are needed when the bad guy comes. They act like there is a bad guy lurking behind every bush and unless you have the latest in tactical gear, he will get you.

Even on the forums, talk of home defense or on the road protection is a top post. Let's face it, 90% of the people who own guns will never be in a situation where one is needed. That is not to say that we shouldn't prepare for such an occasion, it simply means that we should not spend all of our time worrying about whether or not we will see daylight tomorrow morning.

When I used to buy guns (when they still made quality products), I bought them not only to use, but the beauty of the craftsmanship. It always amazed me that something so useful could be so beautiful to behold. Now all I see is plastic (with mold lines) and cheap products at high prices. I kind of miss the old days.
 
jhco

The military is the customer with the big$ :eek: All of us sporting shooters probably buy 5% of the guns & ammo made per year (probably less) In reality, we are just a sideline...... and as the saying goes.. "he who pays the piper, picks the tune"

Some manufacturers do aim (pun) for the sporting shooting market.... they are the expensive guns, coz they take time to get them right (supposedly) and time is money. The big companies who produce mainly for the military just churn them out as long as they work and are up to contracted specs.

Hope this helps you :D and that it is correct :eek:
 
It isn't just the companies that make guns or the advertisers that sell them. It's many of the people who buy them and talk about them. I refuse to simply refer to all of my guns as "weapons." But some people just use that term for all guns. You show a picture of a nice old S&W M27 and somebody will pop up with a "Nice weapon!" I can't visualize Skeeter writing a lengthy article about the .44 Special and referring to every revolver as a weapon. I don't even consider my Glocks or AR or even AK's as weapons. They are guns. Guns I have fun with.

I own a lot of guns. I shoot them a lot. And some of them do have a place in self defense. I carry a gun every day. But I don't even call my carry gun "a weapon." It sort of makes the old anti-gun argument: "a gun is only good for killing people." I guess that means every one of my guns has been worthless to me then since not one of them have ever been used to kill somebody.

We went down this road in the 1980's when it became "cool" to refer to military style semi-autos as "assault rifles." When the anti's then decided to use that "assault weapons" label for the things they wanted to ban, the groundwork for the term had already been laid by gun owners themselves.

As the OP said, look at many of the gun magazines today. The articles and the advertisements. Imagine that you are a totally clueless individual who is trying to decide whether you are in favor of gun control or not. As some of your research you go to a magazine stand and buy 3-4 of what they have on hand. It would be hard to look at the ads in those magazines and believe that people buy guns for anything besides "planning to kill people."

We aren't doing ourselves any favors. Tone it back a bit people!!

Gregg
 
The firearms manufactureres don't make handguns for target shooting or hunting anymore, that seems to be put on the backburner.
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Don't know where you are looking, but manufacturers are making LOTS of guns for target shooting and hunting.
 
I pretty much agree. It is in the interest of the industry and all of us to promote and publicize wholesome, recreational aspects of gun ownership; including "assault weapons".

The more of us who are out there doing family oriented, non-violent sports with our favorite toys, the "less creepy" we will seem to non gun owners.

It's gonna be tough to out do the front page mania that every mass murder with a firearm commands.

It just occurred to me that we are pretty much in the same position as those to whom recreational alcohol use is important.--recreational tobacco use?--recreational drug use?--recreational anything that can be abused.:confused: jd
 
Exactly!!

Yet another fact failed to be mentioned on "If I Only Had A Gun" last night--there's absolutely not one thing wrong with killing a little paper for the fun and skill of it. Fear sells--ignore them. -7-
 
I have brought this exact same subject up before in the forums.
Today's gun mindset really shows it's head when you see a forum topic about ammunition, that really gets people going telling of the latest, greatest, hyped up, mankiller ammo that will do all this incredible damage.
Seems a lot of people are sitting on cocked and locked just waiting for a bad guy to emerge.

I too was brought up shooting for the sheer pleasure of it and trying to hone ones skills as a marksman and admiring finely crafted firearms.
 
One of the most effective marketing tools used is play to certain fears that people have i.e. terrorism, home invasion, car jackings, thugs, crazy people using guns to kill innocent people, etc. Probably wouldn't sell a lot of product if you market firearms in recreational setting only. Gun manufacturers may very well be making guns for recreational purposes but how often do they advertise as such. Aside from hunting what else?
 
Uh, sporting clays, trap, skeet, cowboy action shooting, ipsc, bowling pins, benchrest, egg shoots, cmp matches, I'm getting tired of typing...

There is a huge market for recreational guns.

John
 
This board does tend to focus more on defense...

Of course, being sponsored by the owner of SWAT magazine might tend to attract more people with those interests.....

As noted, fear sells. So, ads aimed at protection get noticed. I see lots of other ads out there, hunting, mostly. Target shooters ads tend to be in more specialised places.

Face it, the gun press just isn't what it was even 20 years ago. Some fine, and formerly respected names in gun print now put out tiny thin magazines, compared to yesteryear, AND fully half of that is ads for off road vehicles and SUVs!

And its not just the Internet. They were going downhill fast before the computer age. Our sport is in decline. There is no getting around it. People of my fathers generation were into guns in a way that is simpley not possible today. Add in a few decades of serious effort on the part of a lot of people to make anything having to do with guns something to feel guilty about, and we are where we are today.

Just look at most of the younger members of the forum today. Lots of them are new to guns and shooting. They are just beginning, as adults. Some of us older folks;) grew up hunting and shooting. Not as many people do that today.
 
It's much easier to make an emotional appeal for defense than it is for hunting, useful for increasing sales.

A $250 gun could easily bring home the deer, hog, or whatever else you are out to eat. Except for the enthusiast, it's hard to really accessorize.

But $250 for a home defense weapon? You must not love your family very much! Oh no, you need a $1200 hand gun and a $900 shotgun, with bullets that cost $1.50 each and exotic "Bad Guy Killer" shells that cost $5 each to defend the Missus and Little Junior.

If you REALLY want to be safe, you need a flashlight, multiple magazines, four holsters, and 80,000 rounds on hand.

DISCLAIMER: (this was meant to be sarcastic!)
 
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I have SD firearms-far more than I 'NEED'. I love to shoot them too!

BUT-I also have a S&W model 41, a Ruger Hunter Bisley .44 mag, a TC Contender with 30-30 and .223 barrels, a Freedom Arms .454, etc. None of these are traditionally used for SD. They get used a good bit too!
 
WE must be ready to protect ourselves against things to come in the future.We as americans must be able to defend ourselves against anyone who is going to take our lives or our rights.
 
As usual, someone has studied this - there are two gun cultures. The original one was the hunting and sport, farm usage and self-defense (but not a main focus) culture. Recently, a self-defense culture evolved - urban and suburban with little interest in the esoteric disciplines (some do get into it) or hunting.

So there is a split with some overlap. The latter culture likes the gun as an implement to be used against people, to be blunt. I once talked to Jan Libourel - the editor of Handguns and then Gun World (smart guy - PhD in history). He said that most folks prefer to read about stopping power, etc. I think there is a bit of vicarious posturing in some of the readership. Like guys who go to the Harley shop and don't have bikes.
 
I like reading about stopping power, but not the usual 9 vs. 45. Now I'm rereading...

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Forgot something. The reason seems "everything" is based on defense is because some people only read magazines and web sites with tactical in the title. I'd think it was all about defense from the magazine rack in the local 7-11, but I know better. If people would read some sporting clays magazines and such they'd see the other kinds of articles and ads.

I mean really, there aren't very many defense-oriented articles or ads at all in Precision Shooting.

I bought a new target pistol yesterday. It's an all black FNP-45 USG and a few minutes ago I ordered 3 extra 15-round mags for a only $37.33 each - definitely better than $45 or $50 per.

John
 
I bought a new target pistol yesterday. It's an all black FNP-45 USG and a few minutes ago I ordered 3 extra 15-round mags for a only $37.33 each - definitely better than $45 or $50 per.
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OK, let's use that quote for a further example. You bought a new FNP-45. You call your best gun buddy on the phone. Do you say "I bought a new gun" or do you say "I bought a new weapon?"

I never say the second choice but it seems like lots of people do use that terminology!

People that get to know me eventually discover that I own lots of guns and spend a lot of time thinking about them. I usually describe myself as a "gun collector." (Not anything like some of the people on the S&W forum that have literally hundreds of jaw dropping NIB examples though!!)

Sometimes a new acquaintance will ask me "what I see in guns?" Something like that. I usually say that number one to me is the history and the design of the gun. So I it goes without question that I will always be willing to look at a 1911 collection or M1 Carbines. I'm interested in guns whose use affected history. And guns whose design itself is history. (Like the M1 Garand. For that matter, the Glock 17!) The first thing I do with a new gun is to take it all the way apart. Every designer has to solve the same issues. Each choice has a plus and a minus. So I take the new gun apart to see what combination of choices the designer made. To see if I can figure out what he was thinking and what was important to him. (There is no better example of this than battle rifles. Which probably explains why somebody like me is never happy with only one. I want to compare the AR to the AK to the FAL to the CETME, etc, etc, etc.)

The next level of importance is actual utility to me. Is it a gun that I will carry or use for deer hunting or IDPA? Or do I just think it will be a fun range gun or for walking along my creek shooting vermin? IMO, this is where we see the split with many of our gun owning friends. They buy for actual utility first. To carry or for self defense, etc. Maybe it is just a matter of how many guns a person owns. I'm not sure I can think of a utility reason for buying even one more gun. Unless I'm going on safari in Africa or to compete in the Olympics! For instance, I've got a custom built AR upper in 6.8 SPC coming to me in the next month. I'm looking forward to it and I've already been thinking that I might use if for deer hunting this year. But do I NEED another gun to hunt deer with?? (Insert sound of maniacal laughter.) If I listed all the guns I own that I could use to kill an Okie deer, we would all get bored long before I ended the list. I buy guns because I LIKE guns, not because I NEED them.

Gregg
 
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