Why is America such a violent place?

One huge difference b/t the USA & other countries is the amount of government-sponsored violence done to its citizens.

Per capita, we're Sesame Street compared to the Middle East, Latin America, & Africa. Heck, parts of Europe are downright scary in those regards... :eek:
 
I have thought a lot about it: Why are America so violent? I know that it is wrong to say something like that about such a enormous country. But you cant deny the facts: The murder rates, assault rates etc is higher than in Europe. Much higher in some places. Why is it like this?
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If you include all of historic Europe, which means including Eastern Europe and the Balkans, the murder rate in Europe is higher than in the USA.

The rate of all violent crime exclusive of murder is much higher even in Western Europe (including the UK) than in the USA.

Your claim that the US is a more violent society than is Europe is laughable considering that the Europeans are less than 7 years past their LATEST round of death camps.
 
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The national out-of-wedlock birthrate climbed from 7.7% in 1965 to 31% in 1993.
White illegitimacy rates increased from 4% of all births in 1965 to 24% in 1993.
For black births, the numbers leaped from 25% to 69% over the same period.
More than 1.2 million children are born out of wedlock each year.
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Am I supposed to care? "wedlock" and "illegitimacy" are based on religion. Furthermore, I thought they were the same thing, but the statistics above indicate otherwise. Regardless, any argument that out-of-wedlock births are bad simply reduces to "pagans (or those who refuse to go through a mostly useless civil ceremony modelled after religious marriage) are bad".

It's religious identification that varies substantially between the U.S. and most of Europe. Americans tend to identify with religion much more strongly (even when they're not orthodox) than do religious Europeans, which makes the illegitimacy rate cited above even more amusing.
 
tyme:

Am I supposed to care? "wedlock" and "illegitimacy" are based on religion. Furthermore, I thought they were the same thing, but the statistics above indicate otherwise. Regardless, any argument that out-of-wedlock births are bad simply reduces to "pagans (or those who refuse to go through a mostly useless civil ceremony modelled after religious marriage) are bad".
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Which pagan culture are you referring to, Marin county CA? :D

I have yet to hear of a single organized human society that didn't have some sort of marriage ceremony. Most pagan cultures like ancient Rome, Greece, the Celts, Pre-Isamic Egyptians, Inca, Maya, Shinto, etc. all had or have marriage ceremonies.

It's religious identification that varies substantially between the U.S. and most of Europe. Americans tend to identify with religion much more strongly (even when they're not orthodox) than do religious Europeans, which makes the illegitimacy rate cited above even more amusing.
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That would sure be news to the deeply devout Catholic Polish nation.

BTW -the illigitimacy rate has dropped substantially amongst American teenaged girls over the past 10 years.
 
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Tamara, according to the Interpol (www.interpol.int ), the US has a high murder rate compared to other advanced nations. It was stated here that that is so due to a large amount of criminal-on-criminal murders. If it is true, it still begs the question: why don't, say, Holland's criminals kill each other in such droves?
 
A legal system that allows repeat offenders constant access to society is the reason. For every person in prison there are twenty others with a list of offences covering several pages. When punishment becomes the anomoly instead of the norm there is no reason to worry. The first thirty days of absolute justice would require lots of graves but after the initial bloodbath things would become very peaceful.
 
The first thirty days of absolute justice would require lots of graves but after the initial bloodbath things would become very peaceful.
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Like in Saudi Arabia? No, thanks. I lived there for a short period and have no wish to go back to that oppressive environment.
 
Oooohhhh, I just GOTTA jump in here... :)

Some of you might know me from THR, my nick over there is Trooper (unfortunately that one was already taken over here). I used to be a federal police officer in Germany and work as a part-time English teacher and interpreter now.

First, just like the US, Europe isn't one monolithic homogenous block. While most political parties all over Europe tend to be a bit more state-oriented, there are are major social and political differences between European countries.

Second, Europe has seen elementary changes during the last 100 years. Some countries have literally been destroyed and completely rebuilt more than once in that timeframe. Pointing out that Europeans did more than their share in killings some 60 or 100 years ago will not help us finding out what the criminological differences of today are and why they exist, it's just a case of "Blblblblblb, you did worse than I..."

Third, the fact that most European countries indeed had their left-wing radical terrorist groups (like the Red Army Faction a.k.a. Baader-Meinhoff-Group in Germany, the Action Directe in France, and the Red Brigades in Italy) doesn't really say anything useful about the level of violent street crime in those countries. The terrorist groups in the '70s and '80s were relatively small, targeted only certain key persons and thus didn't really change the average citizen's risk of becoming a crime victim.

I honestly believe your assertions that life in the US ist not really more dangerous than over here if you stay out of the hot spots. But as someone else already mentioned, the same principle applies to Europe. It is common knowledge that most street crime occurs in what one might call "bad neighbourhoods".

So the real question is: are there more and worse ghettos/hot spots/bad neighbourhoods in the US? If yes, why? The murder rate undisputably IS lower over here (I can only speak for Germany, e.g. British circumstances might be different). Konstantin's question why dutch Drug dealers aren't shooting each other up to the extent they do in the states is quite valid IMO.

Once again to all those who might have felt insulted in their patriotism or political beliefs during the previous debate: I don't really want to engage in a "My country is better/safer than your country"-contest. FYI I don't like socialist ideas either, I know lots of things I'd like to change in my country etc.etc. etc.

I'm honestly interested in finding out where the actual reasons for the aforementioned differences lie. I don't really subscribe to Michael Moore's theory that America is simply a violent country with a violent history and population.


Regards,

Trooper
 
Ad that is proof that poverty is not linked to crime?
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Poverty and crime ARE linked ... only most people have the cause and effect backward.

Many people claim that poverty causes crime, but this is simply not true (otherwise during the great depression we would have seen exponential increases in crime rates ... which we didn't).


Crime, however, does increase poverty ... this is because as crime increases in an area, economic opportunity leaves (this is often mislabled "white flight"). Law abiding people with the means to do so will leave an area as crime increases, thus leaving those without the means to leave behind ... their situation becomes worse and you end up with a Ghetto.

Liberals want you to believe the worlds evils are caused by evil greedy capitalists taking the goodies away from the poor, but for the most part its the criminals that drive the capitalists away (who take the opportunities they finance with them).
 
MicroBalrog said:
according to the Interpol (www.interpol.int ), the US has a high murder rate compared to other advanced nations.
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Following the link you provided, according to Interpol: "Warning: These statistics cannot be used as a basis for comparison between different countries." then goes on to list the reasons why.

You, young sir, are hoisted on your own petard. Bogus comparisons yield bogus conclusions.

Larry
 
According to the article in yesterday's Richmond Times-Dispatch, the city police solve less than 1/3 of the murders even though they 'know' who did them. Therefore, the odds on getting away with a streetcorner shooting are very good and the problem goes on of course because a shooting usually leads to retaliation and not cooperation.

The problem is that very few people will talk to the police or testify because they are afraid of the dealers and/or gangs.

Then there is the ongoing feud between the police and the prosecutors. The prosecutors seem to think the police, many of them, don't know how to collect evidence and work a case. This was blamed on the high turnover and retirement of experienced officers.

Interesting reading. The map they published shows pretty much the same clusters of killings year after year - known drug hot spots.

If I can find the article I'll post the link.

John
 
I was talking about crimes by the people, not murder by government. American always take Nazi Germany and the USSR as example how bad we Europeans are... To be honest, I dont consider Russia as a part of Europe, and not Turkey either.
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I'm not sure I want to include California, New York , and a few other over populated pockets of leftist liberalism in with the US either. And given THAT leeway, the crime rate in the US is MUCH lower than Europe. Probably MUCH lower than ANY European country.

(Sorry if I've jumped in late....I haven't been able to connect with this site in a few days)
 
Interesting thread

The different methodologies used in reporting crime in different countries makes comparisons difficult. Murder however is almost always reported and usually has the highest clearance rate(I think average 65% or so in US) since it is so high profile. That is where to look to compare statistics.

By the way Konstantin, yes a lot of people here do consider democrats or anybody who wants certain constraints on the free market to be socialists. I am a democrat and I find it irritating. You are right when you say American political parties are generally to the right of European ones, there is no doubt of that.
 
By the way Konstantin, yes a lot of people here do consider democrats or anybody who wants certain constraints on the free market to be socialists. I am a democrat and I find it irritating. You are right when you say American political parties are generally to the right of European ones, there is no doubt of that.
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Put me in the "a lot of people" column in that case. Having just a little bit of statist control over people's lives is akin to being just a little bit pregnant.

You may very well find it irritating to be thought of as a socialist, but the market, as you call it, is in the final analysis made up of the free. Well,free until Democrats (and R.I.N.O.s) have their way at least.

Guess you know what I find irritating now huh?
 
"A little bit pregnant?" It's called a mixed market economy. Most countries today have some kind of regulation of markets. That would make most countries today socialist including the USA, the most powerful economy in history. You might want to rethink your definition of socialism unless you want to give "statists" a resounding endorsement.

Sorry for hijacking the thread everybody.
 
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