Konstantin
New member
Your point is: Our "poor" people has it actually pretty nice? Do you think most poor people in America would agree with you on that?
Why is America such a violent place?
- Thread starter Konstantin
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Your point is: Our "poor" people has it actually pretty nice? Do you think most poor people in America would agree with you on that?
Konstantin
New member
JoeSF
True, but if many people are in jail that show that there are much crimes...
And America had Timothy McVeigh and many other lunitecs. You point?
True, but if many people are in jail that show that there are much crimes...
And America had Timothy McVeigh and many other lunitecs. You point?
Konstantin
New member
Germany is not a rasistic country. It is the opposite. They have no big rasist parties at all in the country. Countries with big xenophobic parties are for example Denmark, France, Netherlands....
I would see a link to which speaks about the "beatings of turks" in Germany. What difference would it make anyway? There are nutheads in every society.
I dont have a link to this, but havent some muslims in the US beaten after 9/11?
All through the responses to this question, the concensus seems to be that the reason for much of Americas crime can be linked to its large and varied minority population. I can't deny or confirm that this is the case, however from the perspective of one who grew up in the fifties in a small town with a correspondingly small minority population, it wouild seem to be a valid assumption.
However, and much more relevent to the situation today is the total lack of respect for anything that those of my generation held dear. Todays morals are non-existant and where my generation idolized Heros like Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams, Todays heros seem to be Gangster Rap Stars or Athletes who could not hold an intelligent conversation using words of more than 2 sylabels. When one rapper shoots another in a dispute over who is number one and we dont even blink in surprise, and the shooters popularity goes up, Friends, there is something seriously wrong.
IMHO this country needs to get back to the basic values that we of the Fifties generation held dear, God, Family, country and respect for ones fellow man.
However, and much more relevent to the situation today is the total lack of respect for anything that those of my generation held dear. Todays morals are non-existant and where my generation idolized Heros like Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams, Todays heros seem to be Gangster Rap Stars or Athletes who could not hold an intelligent conversation using words of more than 2 sylabels. When one rapper shoots another in a dispute over who is number one and we dont even blink in surprise, and the shooters popularity goes up, Friends, there is something seriously wrong.
IMHO this country needs to get back to the basic values that we of the Fifties generation held dear, God, Family, country and respect for ones fellow man.
m.i.sanders
New member
JPM70535 brings up a point that I've arguing for awhile now with various liberal co-workers, and not too successfully. With the new PC thought process that doesn't require people to take responsiblity for their actions, and doesn't encourge a real distinction between right and wrong, unless of course you're labled a conservative or CEO. As long as morality is transient and is based on whatever "feels good" at that moment, crime will flourish. I know this is a somewhat simplistic argument as it doesn't address all of the possible causes of criminal behaviour, but I imagine it accounts for the vast majority. I guess in a strange way, society is to blame for people commiting crimes, since society no longer blames and ostricizes individuals who trangress against their fellow men.
Sorry for the misspellings. I'm feeling lazy right now, and didn't take the time to look up the words.
Sorry for the misspellings. I'm feeling lazy right now, and didn't take the time to look up the words.
Check out the "Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries". It will answer most of your questions.
Here is the link again
http://www.minjust.nl/b_organ/wodc/publicaties/rapporten/pubrapp/ob187.htm
Konstantin
New member
JPM70535
Old people often talks about that todays society has moral. But could you bring up some examples what has changed since your time?
Who is responible for the moral meltdown in todays society? Why do no one of the kids in school have any respect of their teachers? Who is to blame?
Is it the media? The politicians? Or the society in common?
Old people often talks about that todays society has moral. But could you bring up some examples what has changed since your time?
Who is responible for the moral meltdown in todays society? Why do no one of the kids in school have any respect of their teachers? Who is to blame?
Is it the media? The politicians? Or the society in common?
Konstantin
New member
Someone brought up that the reason to the high crime rate is cultural differences. But that makes me think: Switzerland, one of the richest countries in the world and with one of the worlds lowest crime rate, is also a very cultural diverse country.
There are 3 major languages in country: French, German and Italian. Plus a small language which i forgotten the name of. Plus they have gotten many immigrant the recent years. They have many different peoples in the country, but still has low crimes. This must show that the reasons to why America has the crime rate is has are many....
I think that one of the reasons is the US small "safety net". With other words: you could more easily lose become homeless in the US than in Europe. I am not trying spread propaganda for the kind of "welfare society" that my country has, because I dont like it, but i still think there must something between the system the US has and the system most Western european countries have.
There are 3 major languages in country: French, German and Italian. Plus a small language which i forgotten the name of. Plus they have gotten many immigrant the recent years. They have many different peoples in the country, but still has low crimes. This must show that the reasons to why America has the crime rate is has are many....
I think that one of the reasons is the US small "safety net". With other words: you could more easily lose become homeless in the US than in Europe. I am not trying spread propaganda for the kind of "welfare society" that my country has, because I dont like it, but i still think there must something between the system the US has and the system most Western european countries have.
another okie
New member
Konstantin wrote:
"I was talking about crimes by the people, not murder by government."
Konstantin, the point that person was trying to make is that one reason the United States government has never turned on its population and killed so many of them is that we are armed and ready to resist. So to compare only civilian deaths is to miss one of the reasons we arm ourselves, namely, to prevent however many million deaths from government persecution. Americans, especially southerners, traditionally solved their problems with violence. This pattern applies to both white and black southerners and those folks retain those social patterns when they leave the south and migrate to urban centers for work.
We could get rid of a very large number of homicides by legalizing drugs. In my little county in Oklahoma there is about one murder a year. Almost all of them are drug related, one dealer killing another. (The exception was the one where the sheriff's wife killed him during a drunken quarrel.) Whether that would be a net gain or loss in health and happiness I don't know - undoubtedly some more folks would OD and kill themselves and destroy their lives through excessive use.
"I was talking about crimes by the people, not murder by government."
Konstantin, the point that person was trying to make is that one reason the United States government has never turned on its population and killed so many of them is that we are armed and ready to resist. So to compare only civilian deaths is to miss one of the reasons we arm ourselves, namely, to prevent however many million deaths from government persecution. Americans, especially southerners, traditionally solved their problems with violence. This pattern applies to both white and black southerners and those folks retain those social patterns when they leave the south and migrate to urban centers for work.
We could get rid of a very large number of homicides by legalizing drugs. In my little county in Oklahoma there is about one murder a year. Almost all of them are drug related, one dealer killing another. (The exception was the one where the sheriff's wife killed him during a drunken quarrel.) Whether that would be a net gain or loss in health and happiness I don't know - undoubtedly some more folks would OD and kill themselves and destroy their lives through excessive use.
Konstantin, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the various states in the US, but I'm from Wisconsin. Population of the state is roughly 5 million. The area where I live--Milwaukee county--has a population of approximately one million.
Over two-thirds of all of the homicides in the state of Wisconsin take place in a few square-mile area on the north side of the city of Milwaukee. The area is extremely poor, plagued with drug users and dealers, and is almost entirely black (African-American, if you prefer).
Drive just six miles south from that area to the area where I live, and there's probably not even one homicide a year. But this area is pretty much middle-class, and drug dealing is rare.
Up until the late 1960's, the US's annual homicide rate hovered around the 4.5/100,000 mark. In 1968 congress passed the most sweeping gun control laws ever. Within five years the homicide rate reach 11/100,000. The "drug culture" was beginning to flourish at that time. The homicide rates stayed at those lofty levels for a couple of decades.
The homicide rates have finally fallen back into the 4.5 range, which is the result of a number of factors: drug gangs have consolidated their turf; the generation responsible for the crimes have moved past their crime-prone years (ages 16 to 24); and we have more criminals in prison than ever before.
Over two-thirds of all of the homicides in the state of Wisconsin take place in a few square-mile area on the north side of the city of Milwaukee. The area is extremely poor, plagued with drug users and dealers, and is almost entirely black (African-American, if you prefer).
Drive just six miles south from that area to the area where I live, and there's probably not even one homicide a year. But this area is pretty much middle-class, and drug dealing is rare.
Up until the late 1960's, the US's annual homicide rate hovered around the 4.5/100,000 mark. In 1968 congress passed the most sweeping gun control laws ever. Within five years the homicide rate reach 11/100,000. The "drug culture" was beginning to flourish at that time. The homicide rates stayed at those lofty levels for a couple of decades.
The homicide rates have finally fallen back into the 4.5 range, which is the result of a number of factors: drug gangs have consolidated their turf; the generation responsible for the crimes have moved past their crime-prone years (ages 16 to 24); and we have more criminals in prison than ever before.
It does seem that the rest of the world perceives the US as more violent. When violent crime was in the rise in France at one point, some goverment dude said they "didn't want to become like the USA."
I think the reason may be because we export a lot of violent media and that makes it look like we are more prone to violent behavior.
That being said. I heard this week about a study done with young boys from different countries. They would put, for example, two French boys together in a room to observe them and then did the same with two American boys. The French Boys were like 50% more likely to show some kind of "affection" (hand on shoulder, etc) while the two American boys were more likely to "punch each other" within the same time. I thought it was kind of funny when I heard it, but it did make me think about how we have different sense of "personal space", etc.
Anyone else hear about this study?
I think the reason may be because we export a lot of violent media and that makes it look like we are more prone to violent behavior.
That being said. I heard this week about a study done with young boys from different countries. They would put, for example, two French boys together in a room to observe them and then did the same with two American boys. The French Boys were like 50% more likely to show some kind of "affection" (hand on shoulder, etc) while the two American boys were more likely to "punch each other" within the same time. I thought it was kind of funny when I heard it, but it did make me think about how we have different sense of "personal space", etc.
Anyone else hear about this study?
lonegunman
New member
Konstantin, I dont think you even know what cultural diversity really is.
You say Switzerland is very culturally diverse? They have 3 languages? French, German, and Italian?
Wow, thats almost as culturally diverse as Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee here in the US.
To understand diversity in the US, you need to think much bigger.
You say Switzerland is very culturally diverse? They have 3 languages? French, German, and Italian?
Wow, thats almost as culturally diverse as Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee here in the US.
To understand diversity in the US, you need to think much bigger.
Have you ever been to Switzerland before? I can assure you that Switzerland is not a diverse country. It is almost impossible to immigrate to Switzerland even if you're from an Industrialized country. Give me proof of their immigration statistics.
In fact let me show my proof to you.
**************************************
Swiss Embassy in London
http://www.eda.admin.ch/london_emb/e/home/trach/resid/visemp.html
Policy
The Swiss Government’s very restrictive immigration policy has made it extremely difficult to obtain Residence Permits with a view to taking up employment. As a rule only persons who have been offered jobs which cannot be filled by Swiss nationals have a chance of obtaining Residence Permits. Inevitably, these vacancies are usually only in an occupation of a highly specialised nature.
The Embassy is unable to assist in finding employment in Switzerland. No lists of Swiss or foreign companies, agencies or organisations are available.
Switzerland is not a member of the European Union, therefore free movement of labour and individuals does not apply as in the EU.
The implementation of the bilateral Agreement between Switzerland and the EU on the Free Movement of Persons, which come into effect on 1 June 2002, can be found on the Website of the Federal Aliens Office in Bern.
***********************************
Here is another site tell you how to immigrate to Switzerland. Let me summarize it in a few words. You have to be rich or famous to live in Switzerland. No wonder there is a low crime rate over there.
http://switzerland.isyours.com/e/residence/swiss-residence-permits.html
So you're a socialist after all. Yeah their safety net produce double-digit unemployment and half of those that are unemployed don’t seek out job. Don’t correlate big safety net means lower crime. In fact it is the opposite. You look at all the socialist state in Europe and most of them have higher crime rate then the USA.
The lack of a large socialist safety net has very little to do with violence in the US. There is more money to be made running drugs, than having a 'real' job 9-5 or a Large social safety net.
Poverty is not the reason for violence. Neither are guns.
In my high school we never had a gun incident, but knives were used quite often.
Europe has plenty of violence. Northern Ireland, Basque seperatists in Spain, Skinheads all over Europe. Political assasination in Holland. The '70s had the Red Army Faction active in Germany and Italy. The '80's had the 'Greens/Reds' active (summer of 1980 and summer of 1984 in West Berlin for starters - I was there and my American friend traveling with me was quite shocked).
As much as I love soccer, I've not seen violence at American sports events like I have seen in European soccer fields. Here I have yet to see barbed wire as a barrier to protect the teams and referees. I see it a lot in Europe.
Switzerland may have 3 different lanquages, but 99.9995946 pct of the population is 'white' and protestant for the most part.
And that wonderful socialist safety net in Germany at least, is getting close to collapse. tick, tick, tick......
Poverty is not the reason for violence. Neither are guns.
In my high school we never had a gun incident, but knives were used quite often.
Europe has plenty of violence. Northern Ireland, Basque seperatists in Spain, Skinheads all over Europe. Political assasination in Holland. The '70s had the Red Army Faction active in Germany and Italy. The '80's had the 'Greens/Reds' active (summer of 1980 and summer of 1984 in West Berlin for starters - I was there and my American friend traveling with me was quite shocked).
As much as I love soccer, I've not seen violence at American sports events like I have seen in European soccer fields. Here I have yet to see barbed wire as a barrier to protect the teams and referees. I see it a lot in Europe.
Switzerland may have 3 different lanquages, but 99.9995946 pct of the population is 'white' and protestant for the most part.
And that wonderful socialist safety net in Germany at least, is getting close to collapse. tick, tick, tick......
MeekAndMild
New member
Konstantin
America is LESS violent then Europe as long as you stay out of the inner cities, the crack houses, the "public housing areas" and the strip joints. You are acting under entirely false and prejudiced assumptions if you think otherwise. .
America is LESS violent then Europe as long as you stay out of the inner cities, the crack houses, the "public housing areas" and the strip joints. You are acting under entirely false and prejudiced assumptions if you think otherwise. .
Konstantin
New member
orlando5
Yes, I have been to Switzerland, many times. And to be honest, it isn't so cultural diveserse as I said. I exaggerated to make a point... sorry
And no I am not a socialist, I think if I would live in the US I would call myself a Democrat. Or do you consider the Democrats socialist???
Yes, I have been to Switzerland, many times. And to be honest, it isn't so cultural diveserse as I said. I exaggerated to make a point... sorry
And no I am not a socialist, I think if I would live in the US I would call myself a Democrat. Or do you consider the Democrats socialist???
Konstantin
New member
You got a point there... I agree with you. This is a point that many people took up when we debated harder weapon laws. But... Wasn't the people in Hungary 1956? How much resistance could they do?
Dont agree with you on that. I think that this would do that even more people start using drugs.. and with that you would get even more problems....
Konstantin
New member
Monkeyleg
Yes I know where Wisconsin is. If I am not mistaken many Swedish descendants lives there...
So it is the african americans who commit most of the crimes? This is what most people before have mentioned. But no one has said: WHY? Why do african americans statisticly commit crimes more often than white people?
Yes I know where Wisconsin is. If I am not mistaken many Swedish descendants lives there...
So it is the african americans who commit most of the crimes? This is what most people before have mentioned. But no one has said: WHY? Why do african americans statisticly commit crimes more often than white people?
Konstantin
New member
Armando B
I think you come up with a smart point. The reason why people all over the world think the US is violent may not be because they read surveys stating that, but instead because they look at American movies and tv-series all the time and get the impression that America is exactly like that....
Do anyone agree with me on that?
I think you come up with a smart point. The reason why people all over the world think the US is violent may not be because they read surveys stating that, but instead because they look at American movies and tv-series all the time and get the impression that America is exactly like that....
Do anyone agree with me on that?
Konstantin
New member
lonegunman
Ok. Bad point. Switzerland is not in long ways as cultural diverse as the US. But you have missed one point. You people always speaks how hard it is to come into Switzerland. That may be true today, but not before.
Switzerland has taken most refugees per capita in the Western World. After the come Sweden, and Germany. Where do the US comes?
Ok. Bad point. Switzerland is not in long ways as cultural diverse as the US. But you have missed one point. You people always speaks how hard it is to come into Switzerland. That may be true today, but not before.
Switzerland has taken most refugees per capita in the Western World. After the come Sweden, and Germany. Where do the US comes?