Why is a .32 good enough for Europeans?

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ddt4free,
I'd like to point out that we would still be a british colony if it were not for the French. If you knew your history, Yorktown and LaFayette might ring a bell. If not, look them up. We owe the ideals of freedom and liberty that so many of us on this forum uplift to the French.
 
I used to live in Germany, and the only round for military and police there is 9mm Para FMJ. German police (state employed, as there are no city/county LEOs in Germany) carry either the SIG P225, Walther P5 or H&K P7 PSP depending on state. German military recently switched from the long-in-the-tooth Walther P-38 to the H&K USP in 9mm. Word is that the police handgun will be standardized to the H&K USP Compact for all states.
All German squad cars have a H&K MP5 in the trunk, shotguns are not widely used except by the SEK teams (German SWAT equivalent). SEK folks have been known to carry other authorized sidearms such as Glocks and SIG P226s. Then there's the fine GSG-9 team (Federal Border Guard anti-terrorism unit), they carry whatever they want (mostly Glock and SIG.)
The armory in a German state or Federal police station would make a U.S. LEO weak in the knees. They usually carry the full H&K assortment of battle rifles, as well as the HK21 squad support weapon and the PSG1 sniper rifle. I guess they keep those around for "domestic emergencies", i.e. revolt of the peasantry. The Federal Border Guard routinely patrols with sidearms *and* H&K MP5, especially in airports and at border checkpoints. The FBG favorite long gun is the G8, a HK21 variant modified for box magazines.
German LEOs may be underarmed by US standards when you see them on the street corner with single-stack 9mm handguns, but the nearest MP5 is just a few yards away in the squad. Germany has draconian gun control, and Germans (as most other Europeans) are much more willingly obedient to uniformed authority than Americans. A German LEO doesn't need to draw his gun a lot, and if something goes bad, they are quick to call in the guys with the heavy hardware. If it can't be done with two eight-rounders, let the commandos take care of it.

So, no .32s in Germany anymore...they got rid of the Walther PPK's in the Seventies. Besides, Germans are usually head and shoulders above the rest of Europe when it comes to devising weaponry. On a side note...Germany has draconian gun control, but somebody forgot to tell the criminals...which are, of course, armed to the teeth. Gun control works wonders, doesn't it?
 
Kapa
Since you brought up the subject of Porche and Ferrari note that when the then new 1984 Corvette came out it consistently and regularly beat the Ferrari 308 and the big Porche 928 on the track. The Corvette was eventually not allowed to race in the same class as the ferrari and Porche and was moved up to a higher performance class. I think they called it the barbarian class.
I think the Europeans were OK with the 32 was because with so few criminals being armed the sight alone of a gun served its purpose.
 
lendringser:

When I last went to Europe to visit relatives, I flew in and out through Brussels and it was the city heat in that fair burg that most touched off my "whoa, I'm in a foreign land" nerve. Cops in pairs, just like the good ole days of Reed and Malloy, except for the flapped holsters containing (it looked like) Hi-Powers, and one of the pair ALWAYS had an Uzi. To my US-born-and-raised eye, it felt just a little paramilitary...

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Tamara's House o' Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
Not to jump on the nationalist bandwagon (I LIKE European cars, and accents are cool, and no one who makes good cheese can be all bad) but anybody remember the Ford GT40? Built to beat Ferrari in endurance and road races in Europe. It originally used a 427 "cammer" and was so successful that the engine was banned (apparently Europeans have a sense of fair play similar to the average NASCAR official) and ford had to go to a 5.0 liter engine and still destroyed Ferraris and dominated Le Mans for quite awhile.
 
Tackdriver,

Read a little more french/american history,(Note: the french fought with and against us in the early years, even taught the Indians to scalp us to show how many of us they killed). Maybe you'll get a view of the whole picture someday but this is not the forum for a history lesson. -ddt
 
When they phased out the .32 in germany some depts went to the smith 19 in .357 before they got the HK guns. If not for the bader-meinhoff terros they would probably still carry the .32 pop squeakers. I do beleave sub guns are on the street more than here. cops on the corner with a subgun is more common in europe. Their gun shoot outs are more like the LA bank stick up with the autos and body armor. Less shootings but more military in nature when it does happen. The perps may even have rocket launchers,.22 .32, nine or even a .45-no HK MP-5 when they have a shoot out.
 
Because Europeans are more thin skinned than us, or we are more hardheaded?
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It's easy, the europeans hardly ever have to use their guns, so why invest millions of Deutschmarks in largely redundant equipment.

If you lived in a country where noone broke the speed limit, the cops would all drive around in Geo Metros, if not, then they need high performance squad cars.

In the US, since even the most lowly street punk packs heat, the cops need a little more in the way of artillery.

Cause versus Effect, remember that the ordinary British police don't carry ANY firearms, because their society is largely gun free. Only specialist firearms units or specifically designated officers are able to, they are even currently debating on whether the issue CS gas sprays are too dangerous !

Mike H
 
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