Why is a .32 good enough for Europeans?

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FUD

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Why is it that here in America we feel under-armed with a .380 while certain countries in Europe protect the boarders of their country by issuing .32's to their state police (i.e., Sig's new P232 was called a 32 because it was aimed at these countries and is being offered as a .32 over there).

I'm guilty of this as well since I've replaced the 9mm in my nightstand with a .40S&W. I'm well aware of the difference in stopping power, but don't other countries have a similar problem with the lack of stopping power with the smaller rounds?

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
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I'm not sure that the P232 is called such because of the caliber. The numeration is to differentiate it from the P230. There were some minor changes made to the P230 and hence the need for a new designation.

I don't know why Europeans and others rely on smaller calibers. You must remember that we have a habit of making everything larger in the US. You won't find any MacDonald's Super Size meals anywhere else. Likewise 32 oz drinks seem to be a particularly US thing. Like Seinfeld once said, "who can possibly drink 32 ozs of Mountain Dew." ;)

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
i've carried a .25 and a .22 w/out being too scared. worst place that i ever lived, carried a 5 shot .38 w/out a reload, wasn't too scared there either. got to hit the target, no matter what you are shooting. i imagine hitting the target might be easier with a .32 than other larger calibers. stopping power, lmao.
 
I think that the popularity of larger caliber hand guns has increased since the 10 round mag limits imposed by slick willy. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this but I'd bet the high capacity crowd has switched to the larger calibers in order to make the most out of 10 shots. I'd also bet that there are more compact guns purchased. I for one don't want a new full sized 9mm with a 10 rd magazine. Seems like a waste. I would want a compacted gun fitted to the magazine.
 
I believe that most European police forces these days use the 9x19 caliber, at least here in Finland the 7.65 (.32ACP)FN police pistols are no longer in service. Just look at any newsreports on TV, there just aren't any policemen with .32s or other small caliber pistols, I've seen Glock, Sig etc. modern 9mm's frequently.

I think it's time to reject the idea that Europeans use small-caliber pistols, that's simply not true anymore (unless like me you think anything less than .45 is a small caliber).

Timo
 
Maybe one reason for the dinky mouseguns is that some Euro nations issue SMG's as a primary firearm....

Or maybe those Eurocops are just wimps, and so are Eurogoops.

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Shoot straight regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
"Why is a .32 good enough for Europeans?"

Because they are willing to lose wars! LOL

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"all my sarcasm is witty sarcasm"
 
In the manual that came with my SIG 230SL there is a detailed specs chart for all calibers of manufacture.

7.62mm Browning is what the euopeans call the .32 caliber. Is the Browning to denote the G-D of firearms John Browning???

The .380 is refered to as9mm Kurz 9X17 I like that designation better than .380 .380 sounds like a pimp gun caliber. The European philosophy is probably based on good marksmanship at close range on Human targets.

The American Philosophy for the large caliber is based upon the need to defend from wild animals like bears, wolves, crack fiends on drugs wearing body armor etc.

I can make a headshot with my .22 don't know if I could do it with my .357.
 
Well, I don't know why the the Euros go for the .32 so much, but I can shed some light on the SIG P232.

The 232 is NOT named after the .32 cartridge. In fact the 232 is simply a revision of the P230, which, while offered in .32 and .38, was designed for the 9mm Police or 9mm Ultra cartridge, which was a 9x18 (not the Makarov) but never really caught on. A very stout pistol for the .380, it's overkill for the .32.
 
A former firearms instructor related this story: ( I will edit to the pertinent stuff )

While visiting London he was granted a tour of Scotland Yard's police museum. The group of international officers stopped at a table were the tour director placed various bullets and cartridges on the table. He explained that they were or are issued by Scotland Yard. He turned to my former instructor and asked," Yank, of course you carry a firearm in the former colonies. What are you issued?" He replied, "I am able to carry a variety of pistols, in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. I use blah blah blah pistol in .45 acp." At which time the tour director produced a .45 acp cartridge, placing it on the table for everyone to see. There were several gasps from the visiting officers around him. A police officer from France next to him turned to him proclaiming, "You barbarian." He swears it is true and I believe him.

Erik



[This message has been edited by Erik (edited April 10, 2000).]
 
Because euros are thin skinned, weak kneed lily livered wusses. :) Witness Erik's French LEO.

Americans just want to kick A$$, get the fight over with and be done with it. The bigger calibers do a better job of this.

Anything less than a .45 IS a small caliber. :)

No offense intended to God fearing Euros
of fighting spirit. You know who you are.
 
Germany always used the 9mm for the border police. the 7.65/ .32 round was for the city police.


There are other factors...

1. In the city you have greater chance that the 9mm fmj- and that is almost all they use, not hollow's- will Penetrate TOO MUCH and has a great chance of going through two people... the target and any citizens in the way. On the borders it is more a military situation, hence the 9mm...

2. Those people who are insecure and feel a need to put down Europeans for their chioce of caliber should consider a few points...

A. Unless you are of African, Asian or "other" decent it is very foolish and concieted to dump insults on the genetic stock that you are decended from. ( You random mutants aside!!) :rolleyes:

B. For a variety of factors, it seems to work for them...Or at least it did for a long time. Due to cultural factors and body size/ mass ratio of former generations...

C.From what I know these countries police forces are/have switched over to the 9mm for all forces....

Peace
IZZY :cool:
 
My pet theory is that in the governments of Europe the police and military as entities of the state. The arms are developed by the military and subsequently passed on to the police forces. The 9mm is deamed adequate for the pistols of the military, and subsequently more than adequate for the police, who are "kindler and gentler." But at times kinder and gentler means the .380 instead of the military 9mm, and so on... Then again, the police forces in Europe often sport battle rifles and sub-guns only American SWAT teams utilize.

Erik
 
Some interesting points made, but one point seems to be missing. In many European countries, possession of a handgun of any type is severely restricted to the police, military, and priviledged higher up muckety-mucks. In those countries, a handgun is THE sign of authority. Makes no difference what the caliber. In some countries that allow civilian handgun ownership, your neighbors look askance at you, it you admit to owning one, even a .22 target pistol.
Let's face it. A .32 ACP/7.56 Browning in the right place, is just as fatal as a .44 magnum. They must be seeing the light though, as more European police departments are going to heavier calibers, primarily due to problems with better armed terrorists.
Just a few of mt thoughts on the matter.
Paul B.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul B.:
They must be seeing the light though, as more European police departments are going to heavier calibers, primarily due to problems with better armed terrorists.
[/quote]

Or problems with less docile peasants, eh? Could the user's unwillingness to ruin their hearing with a larger, louder caliber have something to do with it?
 
Didn't they just have an artical about the 5.7 mm. It basically was a 223 squished down to fit in a pistol. So they may not be going for bigger bullets, just faster small ones.
 
Everything is smaller and weaker in Europe! They have puny streets and chairs and dinky little doorknobs. After having been opressed and slaves for thousands of years they must have gotten used to getting by with less.

Hell, We have a baseball bat and giant baseball diamonds, they play cricket with a paddle and only have 2 bases....LAME! They are the "Barbarians" that our better thinking ancestors left behind.

In fact, if they weren't of such puny weak spirit we wouldn't have had to go over there 3 times this century to bail thier mild little butts out of the mouth of oblivion. Yes, that's 3 times!(bosnia).

My final thought is that they have puny little weak bullets cause they culturally believe that someone will come along to bail them out of trouble. Americans should get free sex and food when we visit over there. We've Damn sure paid for it with American Blood!(some from my own family).-ddt
 
If I remember correctly, I have heard that use of shotguns in an antipersonnel role is also considered barbaric in europe.
 
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