If you are referring to the Wagon Box Fight, the soldiers were not using "repeaters", they were using breech loaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight
Why Don't Pump Action Rifles Get Any Love?
- Thread starter Kvon2
- Start date
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight
Turn bolt also gives a great deal more extractive force.
Not needed for hunting or target shooting (though pump is not what I would call target oriented) but when a rifle gets fowled from a lot of shots and mud and grime then its an issue.
Iffy brass or loads are also going to be an issue.
Still like pumps though, semi auto in 30-06 was one of my serious considerations for a woods gun.
Not needed for hunting or target shooting (though pump is not what I would call target oriented) but when a rifle gets fowled from a lot of shots and mud and grime then its an issue.
Iffy brass or loads are also going to be an issue.
Still like pumps though, semi auto in 30-06 was one of my serious considerations for a woods gun.
jetinteriorguy
New member
My first deer rifle was a 760 30-06. At 100 yds it was MOA and the furthest I ever shot a deer was right around 500 yds. Great rifle never should have sold it.
The Wagon Box Fight was not the same as the Fetterman Massacre. The Fetterman soldiers were wiped out whereas the soldiers in the Wagon Box Fight prevailed and survived...due to their brand-new, single-shot breechloaders.
When it comes to repeaters being able to save Custer, there have been tests comparing repeaters with trapdoors that show that the repeaters of the time could not produce the sustained fire that a single-shot breech loader could. While it is true that the repeaters can fire its rounds faster, they take way longer to reload and when they do, the single shots averaged more shots fired over time. It is said that that phenomenon remained true until the invention of the stripper clip...however, it seems to me that a 30-40 Krag can be loaded quite fast. What would have saved Custer, is if he had not split his force into three and had taken a defensive position on high-open ground (as Reno and later Bentyne did), and waited for the rest of the U.S. forces on their way to the area. Either that, or not been born stupid.
Keep in mind, that repeaters do work, but you also have to have the discipline to use them correctly. That's why the one Calvary outfit did so well. They used them correctly.
Ergo , repeaters are far better than any single fire for a rush, but you also do not just blast them off willy nilly, careful aimed fire the rest of the time (and slow)
Vietnam they had something called a mad minute, total waste of ammo. Viets had to be laughing.
Recent discussion with a vet who had been to the sand boxes, he had never used full auto.
Ergo , repeaters are far better than any single fire for a rush, but you also do not just blast them off willy nilly, careful aimed fire the rest of the time (and slow)
Vietnam they had something called a mad minute, total waste of ammo. Viets had to be laughing.
Recent discussion with a vet who had been to the sand boxes, he had never used full auto.
mich cavalry at gettysburg under custer used spencer repeaters to turn southern calvery, one in four held the horses as the rest fought on foot. you do not have to be rushed to use a repeater as it allows one to fire and reload with out much movement and exposing your self for 10-12 shots from a repeater. had custer,s men had repeaters it may have turned the tide had he not split his men into three groups, but by splitting his men he sealed his and his mens fate as the indians tied reno and bentine down so they could not help custer or his men. it did not take many indians to keep reno and bentine busy while the rest chased custers men down and killed then in a moving fight, they did not die in a group, but in a strung out fight. eastbank.
I would totally give a pump 22 some love if I could find a decent one. Do they even make them anymore? I've always found them fascinating but only fired one a couple of times and don't own one 
My go to for 22LR is semiauto since I haven't had much luck with bolt actions. I just don't find them to be built as well in general. Just my opinion though! I'm betting a pump would cycle well if you aren't trying to rapid fire.
My go to for 22LR is semiauto since I haven't had much luck with bolt actions. I just don't find them to be built as well in general. Just my opinion though! I'm betting a pump would cycle well if you aren't trying to rapid fire.Driftwood Johnson
New member
Funny you should say so. My Dad gave me the little Winchester Model '06 at the bottom of this photo back when I was around 15 years old. His dad had bought it in the Abercrombie and Fitch store in Manhattan in the late 1930s. Shoots 22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles interchangeably. Taurus was making a Stainless knock off of the model '06 a few years ago. I don't know if it is still in production, but I see them occasionally at shows. Of course the quality of the little old Winchester is much better.
I found the Model 1890 at the top of the photo just recently. It was made in 1906. Will only chamber 22 Shorts. It is still a tack driver, but I am having a heck of a time finding any 22 shorts these days.
I found this Model 61 a few years ago. It was made in 1946. 22 Shorts, Longs, and Long Rifles. I was shooting a 22 plate match every month and had to get off 8 aimed shots in 15 seconds. I found I could keep up just fine with the guys with their tricked out Ruger 10/22s.
Fla_dogman
New member
I always felt the loose forearm had an effect on the accuracy, they are fun to carry but mine kicks like a mule
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Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Many people like to hunt with pump rifles. If you like them they are perfectly adequate for hunting.
They are not as inherently accurate as a bolt gun. They have a barrel hanger soldered on the barrel and I have never seen a pump or simi-auto that did not suffer some barrel warpage due to that. At any rate when the barrel is shot out it is not as easily replaceable as a bolt gun.
They have never been favored by the military because they are not as durable as a bolt gun. The same can be said of the lever guns although during war time they have been used to good advantage. The magazine tube is easily dented putting it out of action. Sometimes you go to war wit what you have rather than what you'd like.
That is one of the things that makes hunting interesting. People like different things. It is not so much what you like but how proficient you get at using it that counts.
Joe
They are not as inherently accurate as a bolt gun. They have a barrel hanger soldered on the barrel and I have never seen a pump or simi-auto that did not suffer some barrel warpage due to that. At any rate when the barrel is shot out it is not as easily replaceable as a bolt gun.
They have never been favored by the military because they are not as durable as a bolt gun. The same can be said of the lever guns although during war time they have been used to good advantage. The magazine tube is easily dented putting it out of action. Sometimes you go to war wit what you have rather than what you'd like.
That is one of the things that makes hunting interesting. People like different things. It is not so much what you like but how proficient you get at using it that counts.
Joe
I own an 870 shotgun and bolt-actions are my least favorite action, slow, awkward and cumbersome. I have looked long and hard at a 7600 to replace the last bolty I owned in .308. But I want it in a significant caliber for the larger game. I think 35 Whelen was the largest caliber they offered them in at one time. There's some used one's I see every now and then, but if they made them in calibers like .338 Fed or .358 win I'd probably find a way to buy one tomorrow.
jdh, (and all other that have not looked at at a 760 closely)
You are wrong about the barrel being effected by the forend.
The 760s pump and pump rod are mounted to the receiver and never touch the barrel at all unless it is twisted over by a human hand to force it to touch.
It is a 100% free floated barrel.
I do not like the skimpy extractor and I don't think the triggers are all that great, but I have NO complaints about accuracy. They can shoot as well as a bolt and I have seen it done many times. In fact I have done it myself
If Remington were to mount the pump on a square rod with a broached square pump mount they could even eliminate the ability of a human hand to twist the forend to touch, but alas...Remington seldom (if ever) listens to any advice form anyone
You are wrong about the barrel being effected by the forend.
The 760s pump and pump rod are mounted to the receiver and never touch the barrel at all unless it is twisted over by a human hand to force it to touch.
It is a 100% free floated barrel.
I do not like the skimpy extractor and I don't think the triggers are all that great, but I have NO complaints about accuracy. They can shoot as well as a bolt and I have seen it done many times. In fact I have done it myself
If Remington were to mount the pump on a square rod with a broached square pump mount they could even eliminate the ability of a human hand to twist the forend to touch, but alas...Remington seldom (if ever) listens to any advice form anyone
bamaranger
New member
yikes!!!!!!
I just saw pics of the Troy pump in this month's "Rifleman". Yee gads, that rifle has no appeal to me. While I'm at it, the tac-stock, mag fed Remingtons same same. To each his own, and those two are not for me.
I had a Rem .22 pump, the Fieldmaster I believe, and shot it so much, I literally wore it out. Always wanted one as a kid, and finally found a used one at about age 35, and shot the snot out of it!!! It developed some type of glitch where it would split the forearm at the shot, some type of pulse was coming up the action bar and jarring the forearm. The Fieldmaster was a long, sleek pump, and I always thought quite handsome. Mine was an early one with a slightly longer barrel, dovetailed front sight, simple wood, and the vertically grooved forearm.
Always been a pump shotgun guy, and have carried the 870 many miles, and trained with them at work too. I had occassion this spring, due to my own foul up, to need quick repeat shots on spring gobblers (not recommended) and the pump action came through and saved the day (twice!).
It would make sense to transfer all that time and experience with pumps over to a center fire rifle, but there are no pump rifles in my safe at the present time. I believe the act of cycling the pump forces the shooter to slow down just the wee amount necessary to be better "set up/lined up" for the next shot. It's pretty easy to bang one off with a semi when you're not quite "on". Maybe that's just me.
When I do get around to buying one, it'll be used, and likely from the 760 era. Likely a carbine, if I could find one in .308 that'd be the one, but most of the pump carbines I see are '06. The matte and synthetic LE model was in .308, but they seem scarce and pricey. I may well have to settle for an '06, and load it down a bit to make it less obnoxious in the carbine barrel. I was up in PA last month, and saw quite a few full size Rem pumps in the used gun racks. I suppose I could get one cut. There's no shortage of the later models.
I just saw pics of the Troy pump in this month's "Rifleman". Yee gads, that rifle has no appeal to me. While I'm at it, the tac-stock, mag fed Remingtons same same. To each his own, and those two are not for me.
I had a Rem .22 pump, the Fieldmaster I believe, and shot it so much, I literally wore it out. Always wanted one as a kid, and finally found a used one at about age 35, and shot the snot out of it!!! It developed some type of glitch where it would split the forearm at the shot, some type of pulse was coming up the action bar and jarring the forearm. The Fieldmaster was a long, sleek pump, and I always thought quite handsome. Mine was an early one with a slightly longer barrel, dovetailed front sight, simple wood, and the vertically grooved forearm.
Always been a pump shotgun guy, and have carried the 870 many miles, and trained with them at work too. I had occassion this spring, due to my own foul up, to need quick repeat shots on spring gobblers (not recommended) and the pump action came through and saved the day (twice!).
It would make sense to transfer all that time and experience with pumps over to a center fire rifle, but there are no pump rifles in my safe at the present time. I believe the act of cycling the pump forces the shooter to slow down just the wee amount necessary to be better "set up/lined up" for the next shot. It's pretty easy to bang one off with a semi when you're not quite "on". Maybe that's just me.
When I do get around to buying one, it'll be used, and likely from the 760 era. Likely a carbine, if I could find one in .308 that'd be the one, but most of the pump carbines I see are '06. The matte and synthetic LE model was in .308, but they seem scarce and pricey. I may well have to settle for an '06, and load it down a bit to make it less obnoxious in the carbine barrel. I was up in PA last month, and saw quite a few full size Rem pumps in the used gun racks. I suppose I could get one cut. There's no shortage of the later models.