Why Don't Pump Action Rifles Get Any Love?

K

Kvon2

New member
Starting to think about my next purchase and I came across the Troy pump action rifle. They have great reviews and that made me wonder. Why don't more people talk about pump action rifles? They seem to be somewhat accepted in the hunting community but why not just fun for the range?

Pump action shotguns are the most commonly bought types of shotguns, why aren't they more popular in rifles?
 
My opinion...
Generally speaking, pump action rifles are not shot as accurately as bolt actions -- whether it's the shooter or the design.
They fell out of favor, with the popularity of bolt-actions soaring from the '50s onward.

Then...
Remington killed the pump action class by putting out rifles that ate themselves.
The bad reputation of the 760 and 7600 turned people away from centerfire pump actions, and there really hasn't been a good, affordable competing product to 'right the wrongs', so to speak.

Those that have tried were/are too expensive.

There also hasn't been a military rifle of any significance that was pump-action. So that kills the chance at automatic popularity through GI familiarity.
 
pumps

The pump rifle still has a following in some states that do not allow semi rifle for big game. PA comes to mind, are there others? When I was a kid up there, the Rem 760 in '06 was THE deer rifle. My grandad's generation hunted the old spiral magazined Rem 14 and later 141 pumps. There were quite a few of those rifles still in the woods ( I started with a .30 Rem Model 14). in my grade school years. If you browse the old black and white deer camp photos on line, you will see a goodly number of the old "candy cane" magazined Remingtons.

Rem fielded a few pump rifles in the past decade or so, aimed at the LE/Tac market, stubby .308's and .223's. The .223 model had a version that took AR mags. Some agencies specified the Rem pumps in years prior that, the similarity to the 870 pump shotgun being attractive. In the first year or two of my career, ('79-80) the NPS specified that the agency rifle was to be a pump in .308, and the translation of all the agency bureau-talk was the Rem 760. I never saw one in the field. If memory serves correctly, The US Border patrol also specified the Rem pump as well in that same era, seems as if I assisted on a firing line of Border Patrol trainees that were shooting 760's using plastic cased/plastic projectile .308 ammo on the outdoor pistol ranges. I was quite fascinated by the cartridge (RWS I think), and pocketed a couple for my collection. Their still around here somewhere.

The small segment of LE pump rifles were quickly superceded by semi-autos. In the NPS case, the Mini14, and currently the AR.
 
a semi auto will fire faster than a pump, BUT AIMED FIRE IS NOT MUCH FASTER. if you are looking for a long range rifle the pump may not be for you, but for a hunting rifle out to 300 yrds a rem pump will get the job done. i have several pumps that will shoot three shot six inch groups with reloads they like or better from a rest at 300yrds with good glass. a .243,.260,308,3006. one more thing if you have a case head failure or a grossly over loaded shell,or barrel obstrution the remington 760-7600 action will keep you eyes safe as gas can,t get to your face. eastbank.
 
I've had a Remington 760 in 30-06 since the early 1960s. I also own several other deer caliber rifles of different designs (Bolt, lever, no semi). The 760 is my favorite deer gun. Harvested many deer.

Further, I do believe I can shoot accurately with it faster than my friends with semi auto rifles can. But I've only tried it with two friends. Small sample, but enough to satisfy me.
 
The bad reputation of the 760 and 7600 turned people away from centerfire pump actions, and there really hasn't been a good, affordable competing product to 'right the wrongs', so to speak.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The "bad" rifles Remington put out were the autoloader 74? series. The pumps were absolutely bullet proof and very accurate.
 
I've taken many mulies and antelope at longer distances with my older 760 in .243 chambering. Accuracy is superb! I would have traded if off long ago if it was a problem rifle. I happen to love the trigger just as it is.

Hold the rifle upside down with magazine removed. Operate the slide action and you'll observed the bolt rotating into the locked position. Thus it's a bolt action rifle operated by a slide mechanism.

Slide action rifles are immensely popular here in Pennsylvania.

Jack

 
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Everyone seems to like those antiquated bolt actions because of there simplicity is what I think stole some of the pumps popularity. And too. I can't think of one US made pump chambering magnum rifle calibers. Pumps are heavy noisy quite unlike a quick handling lovely lever that garners more respect and collectable status with us shooting sports fellers.

Staying on point: Those that own a Rem 760 claim their rifle targets as well as the next rifle. I have no reason to doubt such a bold statement. As I know of one young deer hunter that wouldn't part with his carbine model no matter what I offered him for it. ;) :D

As for me. I wish I had a 760 pump. Only because I'm stuck with a old rifle I purchased second hand eons ago primarily for my Spot & Stalk hunting effort. {Never got the yearning to buy some other to replace it with.} I named the rifle Red because whom ever carry's it afield will likely by end of day be leaving a large blood spot on the grass or snow along with a respectable pile of internals.. Yup. Red has that (lucky) reputation going amongst the neighbors in my deer hunting local.~ Early 50s Model e 300 Savage equipped with factory iron sights only.
 
Jack O'Connor is correct.
The Rem 760 can be extremely accurate. If it has weaknesses it is a poor trigger pull as it comes from the factory (can be made better buy any good gunsmith, but never as good as the best bolt action triggers) and the same extractor failings we see on nearly every Remington center fire.

But if you look at how the 760 is made, it is a truly free-floated barrel and those barrels are usually VERY good quality. I have had many come into my shop for work (usually trigger jobs) and I have fired a lot of them over a bench. Don't believe the tales of them being inaccurate. it's not uncommon for one to shoot under 1 MOA.

Remington listening to people ask for up-grades to the rifle to improve the extractor and stone the triggers is not likely to happen, about as likely as Obama joining the Alex Jones Fan Club.

Now if Ruger (or anyone else) were to come out with a truly good center fire pump rifle I believe they would sell very well. Anyone that does this needs to pay attention to the details such as triggers and overall reliability.
No one "wanted" a desk-top computer at one time,,,,,until they had them offered.
I think a good pump rifle would be much the same, in that the market is there and nearly untapped.
There is no reason a pump could not be made to go head to head with a bolt action in reliability and accuracy. I drew up a design a few years back for one and it was not overly complex to make, but I never had the opportunity to make the prototype. I used an AR-15 trigger so I could drop in a Rock-River or a Timney in my rifle when it was done. That gives me a very good trigger. I want to use AR10 magazines too, so that problem is not a high hurdle either. They can be had in 5 round, 10 round and 20 round sizes.

My bolt face and extractor are similar to the FAL, but open bottomed like a 98 Mauser for controlled feed, but with a triangle head that rotates 60 degrees. Fixed ejector also like the FAL or the M-70 Winchester.

All in all it was a design that seems easy to make and should be VERY reliable, but now I have to pitch it to someone that could produce it. So far I have not done so. I had both Ruger and Mossberg in mind, but a friend of mine also suggested Savage.

But the idea of a good pump rifle that covers the needs of both left and right handed shooters seems like a very good idea to me. There is no reason at all I can't make one shoot as well as any bolt action sporting rifle. I think shooters would love it. Good for anything from white tails in heavy cover to mountain goats at 16,000 feet, to Elk in the Rocky's,
I hope I am not wrong.
I want to see it made in 243, 260 7-08 308 and 338 fed.
 
I'd buy a pump rifle if it functioned similar to a Ithaca model 37. Like wise any firearm having a poor trigger pull means little to me. I seldom need to squeeze a trigger more than once to hit what I aim at..~~ You others? :rolleyes:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:D
 
Pump action rifles never had famous gunwriters write thousands of articles about how accurate, powerful, and beautiful they were. That was reserved for bolt actions.
No military connection, like the bolt 30-06 or the AR.
No Old West nostalgia factor, like the lever actions.
No TV series where the hero carried a pump rifle. Probably no video games, either.
 
Pump action shotguns operate at very low pressure compared to modern center fire rifles. You'll never get the same level of reliability or accuracy from a pump action as you would a bolt rifle. They tend to be far more complex and heavier as well.

When fired offhand they can be somewhat faster firing, but if the goal is to actually hit a target there is virtually no difference in rate of fire between bolt, lever or pump action rifles. Only semi-autos are significantly faster for aimed rapid fire. Since shotguns are pointed and not "aimed" they can be faster for repeat shots. Not any real advantage for rifles When firing from any supported position or from prone bolt rifles are faster than any other type of action other than semi-autos.

The US military considered lever actions years ago, but chose the bolt gun instead because they found it had a much faster rate of aimed fire from actual field positions. Off hand should never be used unless there are no other options. Pumps suffer from the same design negatives.
 
we get it, you don,t like pump rifles. we are not talking about long range match rifles here, we are talking about pump hunting rifles and they handle 50,000 psi very well with out failure and i own nine 760-7600,s and with over 50 years of useing them they have never failed me. where i use pump rifles its thick and close and a fast second shoot may be needed. as far as the military not useing them means nothing as the didn,t adopt a bolt rifle untill the early 1890,s. if the military had adoped a repeated custer may not have been killed and there were fights between indians and woodcutters and hay gethers when repeaters saved the day. i own and hunt-shoot bolt-lever-semi-pump rifles and like them all and throw no dirt on any of them. but by being able to cycle a pump with disturbing your sight picture or having to find the trigger again may be the difference in getting the game or not. eastbank.
 
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I think the last is totally incorrect. US military hung onto slow shooting firearms until 1936.

They insisted on the 1903 feature for single loading.

Lever actions "ate" too munch (grin) ammo though proven to be extremely effective by the Calvary unit that bought heir own during the Civil War.

After the war they went to converting muskets to rifle in single shot (Little Big Horn not being the poster child for it working out well - though depends on which side of the reservation you were on in that dust up )

Pump is faster than a bolt for aimed fire, probably close to a semi auto as you are recharging and coming back to point of aim.

That's why pump shotguns were so popular, got back on the birds faster with aimed fire faster (and not lever or bolt)
 
I have my grand dad's 760. It has hardly been shot. I think perhaps most people who shoot at public ranges are constrained to shooting from a rest of some type. The use of a pump actioned rifle over a bench is more challenging than manipulating a turnbolt type of action.
 
I own and have shot many 76's. They are as accurate as most other factory rifles. The problem is I have never fondled one that was smooth. Even the cheap 870 is much nicer to operate. The 74's are easier to take down and clean than the 76's. I know more than a few decorated veterans and very few of their shots were ever fired from a rest. Of course they did when they could but if you're talking percentage then it's simply lop sided. As far as shooting skeet or trap you can best believe the top shooters are aiming and not pointing. Just my .02 sense worth. Lol
 
I have a Remington Model 7615 that shoots ok.

It's functional, accurate and easy bring into action but a little heavy for what it is.

Ten shots at 200 yards off the bench with 55 grain VMAX's and surplus WC 844T does alright.


I like it but would not pay what folks are asking these days for them.
 
we are not talking about combat, but pump shotguns were used in ww-1-ww-2-korea and vietnam and in many so called police actions around the world including in the sand box today.. and shooting from a rest is not that hard. i shoot mine by resting the back of my forend gripping hand on the sand bag when i shoot and raise the rifle up a little and pump the rifle. i think the main reason the military didn,t consider the pump was that the calibers they were chambered in were not as powerfull as they wanted, as the pumps that would handle the more powerfull calibers didn,t come about untill the early 50,s and the m1 garand came out in the late 30,s. we all know the sem-fullauto,s are the king of the battlefield. i just weighted a rem 760 in 3006 and a rem 721 in 3006, both with no scope, mounts or rings and the difference was ounces. eastbank.
 
The Browning Pump Rifle (BPR) that was briefly manufactured was the best pump centerfire rifle that I have seen, bar none. - Light-years ahead of the Remington pumps, which are really not bad at all... It is just a case where the Browning was significantly better.

It was basically a pumpified BAR. - A beautiful, accurate and dependable firearm.

Some have pumpified the AR15. Many centerfire autoloaders can be converted, but it is not cheap to do the custom work required.

Browning started off with the best centerfire autoloader, and that gave them a leg up on Remington.

If somebody made a conversion kit for the BAR Safari, I would save up my nickles and dimes until I could buy the rifle and the kit to go with it.

Original BPR's are costly collectors items, and parts for them are unobtainium.
 
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