Why does the thought of carrying "cocked & locked" make me so nervous?

Its not much use to have a single action semi auto pistol if its not cocked and locked. Its one thing if you are at the range I suppose, but in your holster or in your home thats the way its meant to be. I too worry about spring wear, but on my magazines not on the main spring. The holster is a very important part of the package wheter its open topped, IWB, belt slide or full flap. the gun needs to be held securely and some sort of retention device renetion strap/screw , flap, hammer thong etc is preferable to just 'open'.

I 'grew up' on the 1911 and it took me a while to get used to 'cocked and locked' carry. Then again ever see a hipower at full cock? That looks even more "ready to go". Most of my auto pistols are SA's, even if i buy a new CZ75 i'd likely buy the SA model.

But hey you know Colt made a striker fired pistol with a grip safety?? Its a 1908 vest pocket .25 Thats one I wonder about carrying cocked and locked ;)
 
Big Ken:

Condition 3 has a significant disadvantage. Yes, it is true that, with practice, you can quickly draw and rack the slide. Provided, of course, that you have two hands free to do so. The problem is that your weak hand may not be available -- you may need it to fend of the perp, or scoop up a child, or push your wife to cover, etc. There are techniques for operating the slide with one hand, but they are slow and awkward.

If you do decide to carry condition 3, you had better practice this way at the range. Train as you fight, fight as you train...

You'll have to decide for yourself whether the advantages of Condition 3 outweigh the disadvantages. For me, I'm quite comfortable carrying Condition 1.

M1911
 
I'll see if I can't find that article again, I can't remember if it was on the web or in a magazine I'll do some searchin, & I do see the benefits of "cocked & locked" versus other conditions, I guess what gets everyone is looking at that hammer rared back like that, but taking into consideration all the safety features on the weapon should help us get past the scary look of it.
 
as far as loaded chamber, hammer down is concerned, I realize it is considered unsafe, but isn't it just as safe in the Colt series 80 and the Paraordinance, due to their firing pin blocks, as it would be in my Ruger p97? I don't question the advice to leave this alone in Springfield, Kimber, or any other, but I would think the firing pin block would make it as safe as any other DA/SA pistol with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. Am I wrong in this?

jason
 
jmstr - Take a look in the archives for a recent (this year) thread discussing accidental/negligent discharges that members of this forum have experienced and count the number of them that happened as a result of condition two carry on a Browning-style single action.

In most of the cases in that thread, the firing pin block on the MkIII Hi-Power and Series 80 1911 would not have stopped the AD/ND because it happened while they were trying to lower the hammer on a live round.

If you carry a firearm in condition two consistently you are going to be lowering the hammer on a live round thousands of times over the course of your life. Every time you lower that hammer on a live round, you take some risk (however small) that you will discharge the gun and you only have to slip up once to have an unintentional discharge.

So why take a risk that you don't even have to take? Especially since thumbing back the hammer on a condition two weapon with a firing pin safety is often just as slow as racking the slide and condition two offers no safety advantage over condition one (and in fact is often less safe).
 
Modern semi automatic pistols of good quality are as safe as the operator that uses them.

Which one you select is not near as important as how much you practice with it. The medical community says that you have to do the same exercise 3000 times to develop muscle memory. In our case that means one heck of a lot of drawing from concealment and firing downrange.

As far as the age old debate of cocked and locked, I carried that way for years, but I carry a Glock now.

When people ask, I advise that if you are going to carry cocked and locked, a series 80 Colt or a Para are the way to go. I like the firing pin safety feature.
 
Several times I've checked my thumb safety to find it had been disengaged while on my hip. It isn't a very comforting feeling, but I just click it back and carry on. "That's what the grip safety is for," I tell myself.

I'm thinking of switching out my expensive extended ambidextrous thumb safety for one of those little stiff safeties on the factory Colts.

J. Wise
 
Bartholemew,

Thanks for the info. I hadn't thought of the lowering of the hammer aspect. So, for practical purposes, the firing pin block is really pointless, as long as cocked and locked is the only way the pistol is carried with a loaded chamber. Good to know. I do intend to buy a 1911-type this summer. I was thinking of the new Colts, due to the block, but I can see that this is really not important. Thanks.

Jason
 
The thumb safety on my Para-Ordnance P12.45 is pretty stiff and positive. It does not move into the "off" position until I deliberately put it there. I've been raised on DA/SA pistols and have carried them most of my CCW life, but now all my carry pistols are SA (4 of them) or striker-fired (the other two). I've gotten so used to SA cocked-and-locked that my Browning HP or the ParaOrd look wrong with the hammer forward. That's the "long-term storage" position of the hammer, and mine are almost never in that stage. Once you get used to SA C&L carry, you find that it is extremely fast to bring into action and offers consistent and short trigger pulls. The little"thumb swipe" as you draw the SA handgun becomes second nature after a while.
 
I really can't say much that hasn't already been said, except:
The most important safety is the one between my ears. This is true whether I have an unloaded single shot .22, or a SIG 220 .45 with the hammer back and my finger inside the trigger guard.
 
I came around full circle, or almost. My first pistol was a Ruger Mark II. I mostly carried hunting, and was totally comfortable with that right up until I got ready to buy a 45. One night I went to the range mad, to try and relax. With the first 2 rounds going off before I intended, when I was "just taking up the slack," thanks to all that adrenaline made me think, that going around the house scared to death, looking for bad guys might not be a good idea, with a single action trigger. So I bought a Ruger P90, and then traded up one day to a used Sig P220. The gun seemed great until one day I went into an arcade style shooting range and spent all my time reloading.

Soon I had a Glock Model 24, with two high caps and two ten round mags. I Sold my Sig two buy the extra 2 mags and a holster. (I Still regret selling my Sig, what a great back up gun for hunting in Fl, and I often miss shooting a 45 for fun). Note: the arcade closed before I even got to try the High cap Glock there.

I then started shooting an ISPC style course,; soon got the bug for a P7M8, The course designer had one so the course was almost always 24 shots with 2 mandatory reloads, I really like the safety of the P7 with 2 small kids around, and a new carry permit. This also meant I was competing with what I carried.

I will have to admit that one night after dark, when I ran back in from the back yard into the house pumped full of adrenaline determined not to let a water moccasin get away because my kids and dog used this same back yard.
First I garbed the P7 from under the mattress (I keep every gun I own in condition three, unless it is on me) After I chambered a round I remember thinking what do I have to do to make this gun safe and the light comes on and says "nothing just let go of it" so I stuff it in my front pocket and get a shovel and head out to do battle. I ended up using the shovel because of the neighbors, and because the snake was up close to the house. A side note: Never grab a square shovel to fight a water Moccasin or at least be aware that if the shovel tip is not parallel to the ground you will hit on the corner of the shovel and not kill the snake, it got real interesting by the time it was over.

Later I bought a Colt Pony, I almost got the Mustang, I now had enough experience that I was sort of OK with Cocked & Locked, but not in a pocket pistol that might not be in a holster with a trigger guard.

Last week I traded guns with a friend who is an experienced P7 shooter for a week to do some work on his Colt Defender (remove all sharp edges from slide). I carried his Defender 2 days Cocked & Locked. I felt very comfortable with is especially with the grip safety. I am convinced it is "At least" as safe as the Glock.

My $.02

Best Regards
Sam
 
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