Wreck-n-Crew
New member
If they made a 9mm size bullet travel at .357 velocities with a 158grn bullet that expands to 1.5" then there is the next best thing to a perfect balance for me! But they don't make that bullet...
t-90 said:Double taps are key in using pistols.
Clothing is also a big part of the equation. Sure that HP round by brand x can penetrate through 12 inches of ballistic gel. But ballistic gel doesn't always account for clothing, muscle structure of everyone, and bone. So that HP round that gets 12 inches in ballistic gel might not get anymore than 7 or 8 in a real life situation.
Based on my hunting knowledge which is pretty relevant here.....pass through is desired the large exit hole causes the loss of blood pressure that stops the aggressor.
as a city slicker, the biggest issue is safety. To sum up, you don't want OVER penetration, to protect innocent people in the vicinity.
Overpenatration is a red herring devised by law enforcement to get public approval to use hollow points in the first place. And just like many legends it's been repeated enough it's taken as fact.
I am in agreement with this. I can remember a time when police were forbidden to carry (and use) hollowpoints because of the fear of how the public would react to seeing them. Back then, police usually carried spare ammo in belt loops, where everyone could see it. The myth of overpenetration was created to allow political justification for the police to use the most effective round (hollowpoints), and not be considered "killers".
mavracer: said:Overpenatration is a red herring devised by law enforcement to get public approval to use hollow points in the first place. And just like many legends it's been repeated enough it's taken as fact.
You have some citations with forensic evidence to these events, because with the 20% hit ratio the NYPD had durring that time I have a hard time believing that the 20% of the rounds that pass thru were the problemNYPD had several bullets pass through suspects and strike, and in some cases kill, innocents downrange, when they issued the 115 gr FMJ as duty ammo to the troops.
The New York Times exposed the following facts in its startling report on the matter:
“According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full metal jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects,” stated the Times.
In other words, in rough numbers, 53 percent of these tragic occurrences were apparently missed shots, while 33 percent were “shoot-throughs” of violent felony suspects.
Counting bullets that went through objects to hit presumably unseen innocent victims (13 percent), that tells us that roughly 46 percent of these innocent bystanders were shot by over-penetrating bullets that “pierced their backstops.”
The Times continued, “In that same period, 44 police officers were struck by gunfire using the old ammunition: 21 were hit directly, 2 were struck by bullets that ricocheted and 17 were struck by bullets that passed through other people.”
In round numbers, 52 percent of those “friendly fire” casualties were hit by bullets that apparently missed their intended targets. Forty-two percent passed through the bodies of the intended targets after the bullets struck the people they were aimed at.
mavracer: said:You have some citations with forensic evidence to these events, because with the 20% hit ratio the NYPD had durring that time I have a hard time believing that the 20% of the rounds that pass thru were the problem.
According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full metal jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects,” stated the Times.
In other words, in rough numbers, 53 percent of these tragic occurrences were apparently missed shots, while 33 percent were “shoot-throughs” of violent felony suspects.
The Times continued, “In that same period(1995-96), 44 police officers were struck by gunfire using the old ammunition: 21 were hit directly, 2 were struck by bullets that ricocheted and 17 were struck by bullets that passed through other people.”