Why does Law Enforcement not like the .45?

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Hi rodfac,

For a brief period of time, the 10MM was all the rage. However, when science entered the duty gun equation, it was found to be true that .40 caliber handguns were most efficacious when firing 180 grain bullets at ~1000 FPS. Hence, double stack mags of very efficacious .40 S&W ammo supplanted single stack 10MM duty weapons.

Gun design has a huge impact on felt recoil.
 
One more point: a steel 1911-A1 has less felt recoil than lightweight 9MM handguns. It is a heavier gun, but its recoil is extremely manageable. A woman whom I taught to shoot preferred a 1911-A1 .45 ACP to any other model including an "L" Frame.

My Springfield Armory Loaded Model .45 ACP has extremely manageable recoil. I can easily keep its business end pointed at silhouette targets.
 
One more point: a steel 1911-A1 has less felt recoil than lightweight 9MM handguns.
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To me this depends a lot on the shooter and what you mean by lightweight 9mm. For instance, shooting 124 gr 9mm out of a Glock 19 has less recoil, to me, than my SA 1911 shooting 230 gr 45ACP. At the same time I've find perceptions of recoil to not be overly consistent.
 
Agtman, I take offense to your” less capable” comment about police officers. The people I worked with for so many years were quite competent in their duties, some had failings in areas but don’t we all? I certainly would not pick Law Enforcement as a career today in this tumultuous country of 2017 where the profession is looked at more as targets than protectors.
Although some had difficulty with size, weight and recoil of certain firearms all made acceptable performance with their weapon when tested ( a few had to be prodded to get to the range but were trained until that “acceptable performance” was gained.
 
Good points SA1911 and I totally agree that design is a major factor in overcoming 'felt' recoil...case in point...my friend's Glock .45 with it's much lower bore axis feels totally different than my Sig P220, more of a push to the rear than the up-twist felt when firing the 220. To me, my 1911's are mid-point in felt recoil, due, in part to their bore axis height, and of course, weight.

The Glock mentioned above was a complete surprise to me...as I had the notion that a very light gun would not handle the recoil well...I was wrong!

Too, grip angle, circumference, and the 'reach' length to the trigger all play a part. Size and 'meatyness' of the firing hand, as well as one's strength of grip are significant players as well.

Good comments Sir, and thanks for your service in the LEO community. Rod
 
Or, ... maybe it's because they're preferenced to hire mostly less-capable humans?
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Are you suggesting that "they" are in fact so "preferenced".

If so, can you offer any facts in support to that contention?
 
OK, gentlemen.

Enough discussion about hiring qualifications and the capabilities (or lack there of) of individuals.

This board is for the discussion of firearms and cartridges.

It's not about Human Resources activities or your personal views on hiring practices.
 
For a brief period of time, the 10MM was all the rage. However, when science entered the duty gun equation, it was found to be true that .40 caliber handguns were most efficacious when firing 180 grain bullets at ~1000 FPS.
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No. Science had nothing to do with it. The original 40 loads my agency used was a 155 JHP @ 1250 fps. The issue Beretta's were breaking frames @ about 3000 rounds on average. They then lowered the pressure and the resultant velocity was @ 1200 fps. The move to the 180 grain bullet was because it had less blast and recoil and it was easier for some people to qualify with. This in turn led to a savings in remedial training and less ammo expended in training. Now many of these agencies are going to the 9mm because it is easier to shoot well and cheaper.

At least until the next shooting where the 9mm is blamed for the failure of tactics and ability.
 
johnelmore said:
...Why dont they try the .45?
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What makes you think they haven't? What makes you think that some law enforcement agencies don't currently have officers using the .45 ACP?

Four pages based on an unvalidated, and untrue, assumption. Wow!
 
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