why does everybody hate uber magnums?

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Too many people think that power is a substitute for skill. That's my beef.

I don't care what kind of gun you use. Two things irritate me. One is the idea that you "need" a modern wonder magnum to kill an animal and the other is that you can pick up that modern wonder magnum and make those 700 yard shots when the truth is half the guys would miss with a 243 at 200 yards, say nothing of 700 yards with ANY gun.
 
I neither "hate" nor "love" inanimate objects. I do like the performance of standard cartridges and doubt the value of many of the new shapes and hyped values but I couln't care less what others choose to use.
 
They usually just arn't neccesary

I'm in California. Shots may be longer than you would commonly have in the east but there is nothing here that can't easily be killed with a well placed shot from a .270/.308/30-06. I have nothing against big magnums but unless I were hunting where there are big bears or other dangerous game I just don't see the reason to carry a big heavy rifle that punishes me when I shoot it.
I used to hunt with a 7mm Rem. Mag. It's a great round for long shots but I sold it and got an 06 that is lighter to carry and shoots as far as I care to shoot.
 
I think of uber mags like muscle cars, its great if someone has one because they want one, but don't try to convince me that it is the only vehicle ever made that is capable of running to the local corner store for a gallon of milk.
 
OK, I'll jump in.

I have no problem with uber mags. They fit a purpose and I have no right to deny anyone to purchase them.

In my experience, I see people shooting uber mags to make ridiculous shots or compensate for lack of marksmanship.

What makes a shot ridiculous? Historically, We can pick apart the next advantage and how they were percieved: muskets to bow/arrows, rifles to muskets, scopes to irons, blah blah blah.

This raises an important question: when does hunting become no longer hunting and just shooting? Have we reached a technological precipice where further gains yielded in weapon development are overkill? What is the next advantage? How about a laser? No compensation for drop, winds, etc! We already demonstrated the technology in a C-130 that hit a target with a chemical laser. We've seen miniturization unfathomable 20-30 years ago.

When does hunting skill, stalking your quarry, and scouting no longer become essential to the hunt? Would we cease to "hunt" but just kill? Don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying member of PETA (people eating tasty animals), but here's an example to put in perspective. I was the deer depreadation program manager on base. Using spotlights, 12 gauge 00 buck, and often shooting from the truck, we killed a lot of deer. From a sportsman's perspective, it made me sick. There was no sport, it was just killing. Important killing and needed to be done to protect aircrews and aircraft, but it was just killing.

So, when these hunters are making 700-800+ yard shots, are they really hunting or just shooting/killing? Ok, they wear camoflauge, ride in their 4X4s, probably hike a ways. Wind readings are difficult and there is great skill in making a shot that far, I'll hand you that. I also haven't seen every exception to the rule dictated by terrain.

The other piece, making up for marksmanship, is really counter intuitive. The person is a poor marksman who needs to practice. By buying an uber mag, they now have something less enjoyable and more expensive to shoot. Yes, there are those who tolerate recoil well, but most don't. So now the hunter is in a situation where they will probably practice less. Counterproductive. An example I saw was a man trying to figure out why the last 3 deer he shot at, in Florida, with his .338 Win Mag, were not DRT. All shots were taken inside 100 yards. The bullet blew through before it could expand.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully this is thought provoking (other than "why did he post so much?;))
 
In a way, isn't using a .243 on prairie dogs sorta uber-magnum-ish?
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Uh-oh... Ladies and gentlemen please excuse me- I seem to have found myself awash in guilt.:rolleyes:

Great post Globemaster. Well said.
 
Two sorta-separate facets to this, seems like. One is the distance factor; the other is that of the power.

Distance: More of a challenge to one's shooting skill than to one's skill at getting somewhere in the vicinity of up close and personal. All in all, it seems to me that only a miniscule percentage of all hunters try for these Omigod hellaciously long shots. Not worth talking about, really.

The power thing, however, seems to be far more common in the world of Magnumitis. As near as I can tell from gunstore BSing, many of the people who want more power than is commonly used (generally, .30-06 and on downward from there) seem to believe that such power is necessary for what I call mid-range shots: From 200 to 300 yards, approximately.

I'm talking here about the guy who generally will never see a buck out past a hundred yards or so, and rarely see a buck which will field-dress over 150 pounds. But he still gets sucked in for a 7Mag or a .300 WinMag or even more.

I dunno. Maybe it's part of a dream of going to Big Elk country and seeing a Royal at 500 yards. But it's sure not part of 95% of whitetail hunting...
 
I do not hate them...:)

how many times have you hunted hard all season, and there is that trophy bull/fat cow right at the limit for your gun?
well the uber magnums have been designed just for that!
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:barf:
It happens...oh well the elk wins this year...it is called hunting not shooting. Just because a rifle has a longer shooting range doesn't mean the person has the skill or knowledge to do so successfully. Also, if it is 500 yards away and I can't get move another 200 yards closer maybe I should rethink my hunting strategies and tactics.

Additionally, I'm just happy to be out hunting with family and friends. You don't have to shoot something to have a good time.

i know everybody says "too many people just wound the animal at long range" .
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I would agree...how many people have regular access to practice at 500-1000 yards?

what about the .30-30, .308, .243 hunters out there that get a bad shot at close range?
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It happens regardless of caliber. Just because you use a magnum at 100 yards doesn't mean it is dead. It is all about placement.

you might say: "what about the guys that go out and and shoot 500+ yd after only sighting in their rifles?"
to which i reply, "what about the even more people that do the same with their .270's and such?"
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I know MY limits and stick by them...not the rifle's limits as my rifles are plenty accurate past my limits.

so what if shooting at $500+ yds isn't YOUR idea of hunting, if you like to sneak around with your "under powered" .30-30 and get within 50yd of of the target go ahead.
i say hunt your own hunt, and let others do the same.
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What is next? Using tanks at distances 20 miles away? I can easily walk within 500 yards or most game I'm hunting so where is the challenge?
 
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how many times have you hunted hard all season, and there is that trophy bull/fat cow right at the limit for your gun?
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Never. 100yds is a long shot in the Florida scrub. I don't mind people who hunt with the super duper uber deer stompers but it's not needed in 99% of ethical hunting. I hunt with a .30-06, if there is an animal outside it's range limit I wouldn't take the shot even with an uber whatever. If you want to hunt with a .338 super mag that's cool, but don't take shots you shouldn't. Me, I'll stick with my old under powered .30-06.
 
If you don't use a Magnum, you will be "robbed" of a kill

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And then, because you are a real man, using a real magnum, you don't have to aim. The magnum will do the rest for you.

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Me, I don't care for the recoil. And I don't care for the attitudes I have observed behind the uber magnums.
 
I don't hate the uber's, it's just that in most cases, they don't do any thing any better than a standard cartridge.

My opinion is that most uber mags are sold to drive new gun sales and not because they are really just better rounds.
 
I don't hate them, but the chrony don't lie

I've had three Mags, a Mark V 7mmWeatherby, a Mod 70 7mmRM and a M 700 7mmRM. I just gave my 70 Classic LH to my oldest son and got a RH to replace it. A bad cervical disk has increased my recoil sensitivity over the years.

The thing I've noticed about the Ultra Mag type cartridges is the general average of 8% velocity increase for a 40% increase in powder. Chronograph results rarely equate the factory claims. The 2.5" belted case still gives a much better increase in velocity over the '06 based cartridges for the amount of powder increase.
 
I'm gonna admit it, I'm a magnum hater. Why? Because in 99.9% of hunting cases they aren't needed. It's funny how critters have evolved into having armor plating. Rounds like the .357 and 30/30 are no longer powerful enough. Etc. Etc. I don't hate long range hunting. As a matter of fact I'm guilty of taking many shots that aren't with-in the "point blank range" of the gun and cartridge I'm shooting. Whether it be my 12 ga, my 22-250, my 30/30, etc etc. So you could say I hate em because of the gun rags and internet zealots that tout them. If you "NEED" a magnum you're doing something wrong. I don't care if the range is 20 yards or 1000. I don't care if you're shooting a gopher or a grizzly.


Now, I don't mind all mags. I like the .357 and the .22 mag. That's about it.
LK
 
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Actually,my long range varmint rifle for coyotes and even an occasional prairie dog is an M-70 Laredo in 7mm Rem mag with a Leupold 4.5-14 M-1 long range .

When I'm elk hunting,I have a light,#3 douglas bbl'd FN with a Garret Accra-lite in .375 Chatfield Taylor,(270 gr bullet at 2600 FPS).Decent 300 yd trajectory.Do I need it?No,I would happily use my .257 to kill elk.I built the .375 after an Alaskan trip that involved a bear taking a bite of my wife.
And,I enjoyed having coffee with Elmer Keith.I really like that rifle.

If my wallet and priorities would permit,I'd like to build a 338 Lapua or a 338 RUM just to shoot 300 gr MK's at rocks 3/4 mile away.Seems to be almost like having a .50.

.For me,it is not at all about "hating?" a caliber.(bizarre concept)

What sometimes occurs,it is a lot like buying a car or motorcycle that has 780 hp and goes 170 mph.That is not a big deal.

But we have all seen what happens when a young fellow's first wheels are a 160 mph crotch rocket.

Buying a machine does not make a 160 mph driver,and buying a magnum does not make a 700 yd shooter.While there are special high performance rifles like the 300 win,the 338 lapua,and the 50 bmg being used by our military snipers,the standard is the .308.

I know of folks who think pheasant hunting is about piling into a 4wd suburban,going to a "hayseed state" and racing across planted winter wheat fields ,jumping out and blazing away when birds start to rise.
They told stories of cross the canyon herd shooting with .338's.at 600.700 yds.That sort of activity,I hate.

I think muscle cars and fast motorcycles are way cool.I'd really like to have an AC Cobra with a boss 429 under the hood.

But I drive a 1983 Tercel 4wd wagonFor 13 years,same one..Because,folks,its like a .257 Roberts.In its own way,it is better than an AC Cobra.Partly because I have not had a traffic ticket in over 20 years

Partly,it has 6 gears forward with a granny low lock,and gets 28 mpg on the highway,and takes me anywhere I need to go.Just like a .257
 
I am not a hater, but they are not for me. I had a 7mm Weatherby Mag for a while, and I would flinch just taking it out of the safe. I hated that gun because it would drain my wallet when I PRACTICED with it (which I kinda feel compelled to do :rolleyes:) and beat me black and blue while doing it.

I am a 300 yard at best shooter. I do not have the time to spend at the range, nor the resources to be more than that. For what I do, you could make the arguement that my -06 is overkill, but to each their own.

No such thing as overkill, only underkill.
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Actually, there is no such thing as underkill either. What there is, is a lack of understanding the limitations of both the cartridge and the shooter. If you stick to the limits of that combo then dead is dead.
 
My wife uses a .243 for deer, and if she gets a bad shot at any range she just wont take it. Leave them walk with any caliber. Mags are great if thats what your into I have nothing bad to say about them. I reload for a few friends that use Mags. They always score, but know when and when not to take a shot. That really holds true for distance on leaving them walk if you need to. How many practice that even 200 plus yard shot, and are good at it. I mean in a fast sitiuation. No doubt lots of folks on this forum are pro's at it and take great pride in there shooting skills. I wish I could shoot that could, thats why I need to know when to leave them walk, with whatever caliber I am using. But back to the Mags nothing wrong with them at all there are some great ones out there. Again there are lots of folks who have great skills at long range shooting. I wish I did. At one time I was alot better but I guess that age thing creeped up on me, even reloading shooting alot, I know the rifle is bettet than me. Were I hunt most shots are under 100 yards, and I would say the average is about 50 to 75 but there fast, and quick. You need to decide very fast if it's a good shot and what you want, or again leave it walk and wonder. Which I think is better than a wounded animal, or something that was not has big as you wanted. If you leave it walk who knows might come back. Or the next year bigger. Which I have had happen to me a few times, and I new it was the same deer only bigger. Just my thoughts.
 
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