Why does choosing a "black" gun cause some of us to stress?

SirGilligan said:
"There is just something about these types of rifles that create, for me anyway, this hyper concern about so many things....

Seriously though, it is hard to lighten up and just enjoy it all."
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You need to realize on some level that at least one part of your anxiety stems from this internet forum fanboi hypersensitivity to largely inconsequential details.

In the real world many of them don't matter.

My youngest is on an A-team with 2 Bn, 7th Special Forces out of Bragg, and recently returned from his second deployment. He was in Helmand Province, and saw quite a bit of combat. He fired a standard Colt M-4 that was issued to all members of the team. It was equipped with a front grip, ACOG, and standard (white light) flashlight for house searches. It was painted with some type of spray paint.

It was NOT a custom-designed, hand-built-from-only-the-highest-quality-parts, highly-modified mall ninja wet dream.

Much as these guns are nice to look at and fun to discuss on forums, if you're getting anxious that you're behind the curve if you don't have one, you need to realize that there are a lot of real-world operators in combat today who are not carrying these. They're carrying what the government issued to them, and 99% of the time the issued M-4s are working just fine in real-world combat against adversaries who shoot back, thank you very much.

Take three deep breaths and don't get wrapped too tightly.

You could go out and buy an off-the-shelf Colt and have a battle ready weapon without all the angst.

Best,

Doc
 
The only 2 real issues you should worry about are:

1. No, not all AR's are the same. There ARE different levels of quality. This doesn't mean you need the HIGHEST quality AR out there. But you do need to determine what level you do need. That's based on what you plan on doing with it.

2. How much are you going to LIMIT yourself on where you buy it? Not talking just dollars. If you are worried about price, but you're ONLY WILLING TO BUY from a Local gun shop, then you're going to find that you are going to pay $1000+ for a rock river, DPMS, etc... or $900 for an Olympic Arms. You'll pay $1100+ for a Bushmaster. Is there anything wrong with these weapons; not for the average person. But if you plan on doing a lot of shooting, or plan on using it hard, then these are definitely on the lower quality level of AR's. (sorry, i won't entertain an argument, they are.) Again, for the average person, one of these AR's are fine. My point is; if you don't LIMIT where you buy from, and you're willing to buy online or shop around different towns, Big Box Stores, etc... you can find one of the much higher quality AR's for the exact same price you were going to pay for the lower quality. EXAMPLE: At CDNN, you can get a colt AR for $899. You're not going to find a colt for that locally, and probably not even a DPMS, Bushmaster, or Rock River.
 
I personally see AR-15s as rubbish, because the controls I cannot use very well (I have small hands and cannot reach the safety, the charging handle and FA are awkward for me, and I don't like the mags/bolt stop)

I can change a magazine on an AK or load a stripper into an SKS very fast, faster than many people I know can change an AR magazine. I've seen ARs taht can't do 2MOA and AKs with handloads getting 1.5 MOA. The AR system offers me very little benefit and creates a myriad of problems.
 
Well, the fact that you speak in "MOA" language, means that you're probably trying to make an "Assault" rifle perform like a 400 yard Wheatherby Hunting rifle. AR/AK's were designed to shoot man size targets; 18" Center of mass targets; within 100 yards. In original design, intended to also shoot Full Auto, by POINTING, NOT AIMING. Only through evolution, and civilians WANTING their weapons to serve other purposes, have people come to the conclusion that their weapon was "Intended" for what they are trying to do. I.e. Many people think a 1911 makes a great concealed weapon, and was designed for that. No, it was designed to be a military weapon carried in a flap holster. They also think it was "Designed" to be carried "Cocked and locked". No. Matter of fact, the first 1911's didn't even have a safety. When the safety was added, it was again for the military. Carried in this condition in a battle. When not in a battle, it wasn't carried "Cocked and Locked". It was carried with either the hammer down/half cocked, or no round in the chamber. Anyway; being disgruntled because one military weapon can shoot 0.5" moa better than a different one is funny.

As for your dislike because of the controls, that's personal preference, and that is totally acceptable. Nothing wrong with you not liking the controls. Me personally, I don't have a problem with the charging handle. It's only used ONCE. That's after cleaning or dis-assembly, to reload a round in the chamber. Once the round is in the chamber, you shouldn't need the charging handle again, unless there's a malfunction. But as a lefty, I know you can get ambidextrous charging handles. That would allow you to operate it in an easier way if you like. Most of the controls were designed to be used with your shooting hand in place. But if you don't like the way the controls are; that's cool.
 
@christcorp

Not speaking MOA language for that reason. People cite the AK's inaccuracy, among other things as reasons it is inferior to the AR.

As for the controls, I realize the whole thing is for shooting hand in place, but I use mostly bolt actions, and because of that I'm more adept at keeping my left arm on the foreend and cycling the bolt, operating the safety, etc.

Its a matter of Chocolate vs Vanilla preferences, to each his own. If an AR had a side charging handle, better mag design (G3, FAL or even AK would be an improvement) and a safety I could operate with my right hand, I would definitely be more receptive, but price is another factor, as many very good quality ARs are 1k+ and an Arsenal AK is around 7-800
 
I do not like black guns. If I use a rifle I want one that is nice looking with decent wood in the stock. The grip of black guns is clumsy and carrying it is not as natural as a conventional rifle. The stock does not fit me so that my eye is looking through the scope when I bring it up.

I personally would not own one if the finest made were given to me. Combat is a different story, but I don't see that I am going to need one to quell a riot.

Something like a nice Wby MK 5 or Kimber M 84 is much nicer, and better for any use I would put it to.

Jerry
 
I wanted an AR type rifle for a while

It meets some good criteria- military-type design, which means a low level of complexity, very understood platform, many good choices for parts and makers, broad range of calibers, can change calibers by changing parts

I settled on a Colt AR15, pre-ban lower with a post-ban 5.56 upper, A2 style, 20" barrel, looks like an HBAR but isn't, don;t know the right name for the barrel

And it's a great rifle. I'm not playing army or zombie-hunter, but if the zombies come they need to take some evasive action and run for cover because that Colt is accurate and reliable as all git-out!

But 'black' rifles (mine is dark green parkerized) have a stigma. Quick story, somebody at work- ex-Army- asked me what I was doing for the weekend last month. I mentioned I may get to take my AR to the range finally. He said "An assault rifle?!". And it stunned me, he's an anti, and he should know damn well that an AR15 is not the M16 or M4 he carried in Iraq

I said, "well no, my AR15 is not an assault rifle. Doesn't even have a bayonet lug. But my folding stock M1A1 from 1943 does" just for the satisfaction of it. I really respect his contributions to my country but his opinions don't matter much to me when it comes to me, and it was very bizarre to see that he disapproved of how I spend some free time. Anyway- his perception was that I had a thing I shouldn't be able to get my hands on, and of all people, you'd think somebody like him would know the difference
 
Thank you all for the replies. I have read them all again. Great advice. Great people to take time to share such length and detail.

I am a bit of an odd-ball. I like the engineering side of things as well and when I see things that are easy to work on, simple and yet elegant, those things appeal as well.

For instance, back in the early 80's. The boys had Camaro's, Firebird's, and all of the late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. My brother and me had a '71 Chevelle and a '57 Chevy Truck (with the wrap around rear glass), but my favorite car was the '79 280-ZX. Big old straight 6. Independent suspension. And it was easy to service. The grease fittings were where you could reach them. On hot night in Kentucky after racing it for about 30 minutes against my high school buddies I got out of the car and turned it off. As I was walking away I hear this whirring sound. What the heck. I pop the hood and there is some kind of electric air circulator setting on the side of the head near the intake blowing cool refreshing air. I thought, dang, they thought of everything.

I like stuff like that.

Function wise:
I want a 5.56 caliber because of ammo ability.
This is a gun to plink with and to hunt wild pigs, wild dogs, coyotes, ground hogs, etc.
Truth is it will get used and then maybe sit for 8 months. But if I did need to bug out I would expect it to work. I do good maintenance and maybe a bit too heavy on the oil sometimes. My Browning Hi-Power blew a cloud out! Oh well.

Resell ability:
I can't invest in gold and silver when it is running at all time highs. Just me. I do want to by "hard goods" in case of inflation. Therefore I want something that has resell value and guns seem to be good in that area as well.

Finally, when I do shoot with my brother and cousin(s) the ultimate score is accuracy and ability. My brother is just better than me, so I have to even the playing field if I can by have a more accurate weapon than him. Thus my Hi-Power versus the Ruger he was using last time. Ha ha ha.

He shot my Hi-Power and tightened up the groups by nearly an inch overall. I through rocks into the air and he will shot them with a 22 rifle.

We mad up a game last time I was there. Our farm is on a nice river. Kentucky has lots of flat rocks on the sand bar. I would skip the rocks (go for about 30 yards with something like 45 to 50 skips) and he would shoot at them with a pistol. We called it pistol skeet. It was fun. He was nearly hitting this fast little skippers.

Thanks again all.

Back to writing software for now. Ballistics has caused me to get out my Calculus texts and my Physics books. That has been awhile.
 
Why not a Mini-14? My uncle has a newer one that hits just as good as any AR, its also less dirty than an AR and you can get one much cheaper.
 
@tirod
Amen.
Far too many wannabe soldiers, that overanalyze every roll pin and doodad to minutiae...and brag about their $250 charging handle...
I swear some of these guys must fret and research a simple rifle build for a year before they pull the trigger and order the parts. Get a good barrel, and trigger. Far as the rest of it, it really doesn't matter whose name is on it.
 
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That the black rifle is the US Military's makes the cartridge and weapons system a logistical dream for a citizen. It may not be an ideal cartridge, but it's adequate and abundant. Plus the silhouette of it screams American so that's why I own an AR.
 
Get a middle road AR,shoot it a while see if it for you if not sell it.
Take a chance you might like it,it aint like your stuck with it forever.STRESS BS just do it:eek::D:D
 
Get a good barrel, and trigger. Far as the rest of it, it really doesn't matter whose name is on it.
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Thats about 50% true... I've seen some crap parts floating around.

and you'll also need a quality bolt carrier group/extractor. But the rest dosen't make that much of a difference.
 
Based on the criteria for hunting varmints and reliability I suggest a flat top HBAR with chrome lined 1:9 barrel. Bushmaster makes a decent one, as do several others, and any of the major brands is going to do you good.

Upgrade the trigger with any of the aftermarkets you want, they all work.

As far as piston vs. DI goes, go with DI. Any benefit to a piston system is arguable at best. Stick with the standard DI for parts interchangeability.

Go with a standard A2 style buttstock. The adjustable versions for the M4 clones doesn't give you as good a cheek weld for accuracy.

Good luck, good shooting, and I hope this helps.

Jimro
 
funny...

I think a lot of us unfortunately have significantly more time to spend on the internet debating the merits of hammer forged barrels, 1/7 twist, direct impingement vs piston driven, chrome lining, than we have time to actually spend at the range. So we spend a lot of time wrapped up in details of little or no consequence for amount or level of shooting that we actually do.

A few months ago a good friend of mine damn near went into convulsions when he discovered that his Rock River mid length carbine had a commercial buffer tube.

I asked him how many rounds he had through the gun.

"about 2500".

Any problems?

"No."

I just laughed. Do what you gotta do... :-)
 
Call of Duty... I play it sometimes. Does it make me want to buy a particular gun. No. It makes me yell at the Wii for the server and network lag and the fact that you shoot with someone's head in the sight and it misses because the program couldn't calculate the intersection problem fast enough. But that is off topic. :)

The mini-14 is intriguing. If they changed that rifle to take standard AR mags it would be sweet. Maybe there is something that prohibits that change. Reviews of the newer rifle with a new profile barrel and a better assembled gas block says that the rifles accuracy is improved as well.

Thanks again.
 
Stressing is OVER

I made my decision, and raised/saved the funds, and the purchase is done.

FN SCAR 16s, Black.

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