Why does choosing a "black" gun cause some of us to stress?

S

sirgilligan

New member
It is no secret that I have been saving for a new "Black" gun.

But for me, and apparently some personalities like mine, I over analyze the issue to death.

Should I get a DI 5.56 style gun? Lots of them. Military has them. Ooo, they run dirty and might fail! Crap.

Should I get a Pistol driven 5.56 gun? No more evil dirty gases in the receiver. What, the bolt carrier may tilt! Crap. Only 80% parts compatible, how will I ever replace a thing on it!

I should get a new modular system, piston driven, quick change barrel,... What, the military didn't choose it, crap, soon there will be no parts. Oh no, the barrel doesn't return to zero on a switch, I am dead.

Here is what my brother had to say about the whole thing. "If you are imagining you need to shoot the thing against the hordes then here is what I am going to do, take my 300 Win Mag and shoot them, if I live at the end of the day I have all kinds of black rifles, if I don't it doesn't matter."

There is just something about these types of rifles that create, for me anyway, this hyper concern about so many things.

The only solution I have to this sickness is to buy them all. I prescribe this remedy to all that suffer. Just kidding.

Seriously though, it is hard to lighten up and just enjoy it all.
 
You will be happy with a M16
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You do know that there is a huge difference between a legal AR-15 and a M16 where you will need to jump through a hundred hoops fill out a few pages of paperwork get back ground checked and pony up the money for a stamp don't you?
 
I used to have that issue.. I'd obsess about what gun to get, what brands to stay away from, etc.

My only AR right now started life as a Bushmaster ORC. The gas key is properly staked, it runs well hot, cold, etc etc. It's simple, relatively inexpensive and quite accurate.

The problem with Black rifles is there are so many with features and specs so similar... and relatively close reliability in the same price range too.
 
Most of todays popular guns had military origins.
The AR/M16 'black' guns are the current evolution.
However, they just don't appeal to me. I don't plan to ever buy one.
However, a ca. 1800 lightweight flintlock longrifle in .40 cal. would catch my eye big time. ;)
 
The AR15 is easy to over analyze because it is modular and can be configured so many different ways. I would recommend staying with a basic, common configuration to start with and then customize it AFTER you have shot it and decide what needs tweaking, if anything.

I like the M4 configuration as a starter because it has the adjustable stock so it can easily fit everyone in the family. And the 16" barrel (not exactly M4 but civilian version) is handy if you want to use it for home defense and has plenty of velocity out to 200-300 yds. Excellent iron sights are available.

If you plan to shoot mainly targets or service rifle matches then the National Match style (A2) or Flatop (A4) with 20" barrel is great.

I would leave decisions on piston, optics, rails, doodads until after shooting a basic model a lot and knowing from experience what you need (whether as accessories or a second rifle). Many guys spend more time and money customizing their AR than they do shooting it. A basic A2 or M4 is plenty of fun and educational just as they are.

While it may seem more expensive to get a basic model and then replace or upgrade components later, I submit that if you accessorize first you will likely over do it trying to anticipate every need. I would only buy a kitted out model if I had shot one in a class or of a friend and knew exactly what I wanted. Otherwise it becomes a Barbie doll for boys to accessorize. Aint that purty!
 
Just start with a basic Ar-15 setup. I would recommend either a 20'' with a fixed stock or a 16'' with a collapsing. You will know where to go from there.
 
It sounds like you're overthinking things.

If parts availability is a concern, then buy spare parts to keep on hand. It doesn't really matter if AR-15 bolts are much easier to obtain than those for an ACR if you find yourself needing one and for whatever reason you don't have one right there with you. If reliability is a concern, read real testing and be realistic, don't just read the hype that gets posted by assorted folks just yapping.

The best route is to find a firearm that you like that is also generally reliable, find out where the weak points are in the design (EVERY gun has a problem area), and buy a few backup parts. For an AR, I'd have some springs and a bolt carrier group. For a piston AR, some spare receiver extensions. For something else, whatever tends to go bad with that. For everything, spare magazines.

If you find yourself in a running gunbattle with a rampaging horde, you're pretty much a dead man anyway, so planning for that is just silly. If you are preparing for "just in case", then a good set of spare parts will cover you.
 
racism ?
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:eek::cool::D;)


I have read all of the replies thus far. Thanks. Do I over analyze? Why yes, I am a software engineer, it is my job, it is drilled into me, it is not healthy! ;)

Also, I am stingy. Only two people in the family that are tighter than me and they squeak when the walk.

And you are absolutely correct, the horde always wins. So if I want to join a horde... ;) There I go analyzing again.

Thanks. For those of you like me, maybe we should start a support group. We could meet at a gun range and talk about shooting the rifle we never bought because we couldn't decide.
 
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I have read all of the replies thus far. Thanks. Do I over analyze? Why yes, I am a software engineer, it is my job, it is drilled into me, it is not healthy!
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HAHAHA. My father is an engineer, my brother and sister are engineers. I understand. :D

Seriously, though, the parts that are potentially failure points in widely produced rifles (the AR and AK families) are not all that expensive. Under $150 for a bolt carrier group of decent quality, no more than $80 for a full lower parts kit (and you don't even need all of one of that), and magazines can be had for under $15 each for excellent quality. If you shoot much at all, by the time you need those replacement parts (assuming you bought quality to begin with), you'll have fired many times their value in ammunition.
 
Tell you what...

In the first 100-150 rounds of my Daniel Defense AR-15, I had 5-6 failures (actually I never did, just friends shooting my gun) using PMC Bronze .223. I started to get really nervous and cold feet about the AR platform.

So I cleaned it real, REAL well, and I researched (on TFL!) the best spots to oil for good performance, and the best areas to clean real well.

Yesterday I fired 200 rounds of Remington UMC .223 with zero issues. Nary a problem. Lower-shelf ammo fired rapidly in 30-round magazines (2 or 3 of them fired as rapidly as possible) with zero issues.

My confidence in the DI 5.56 has significantly increased. It's all about the maintenance.
 
K.I.S.S.

I have friends that have hung so much aftermarket stuff on their Ar's that the rifles look like transformers.

I have a Bushmaster carbine .223/5.56 with an ACOG scope. I can take the butt off a fly at 100 yards and the gun has never failed to fire or has had any other type of malfunctions, regardless of what type or brand of ammo I have fed it. The simple trick is to clean it thoroughly after each time you shoot it.

Don't over think it. Remember the idea is to hit your target, not launch a space shot. It becomes a lot more fun when ya just load it up and fire away.
 
If I were you I would go with a DPMS with a 16 inch barrel and a collapsable stock. Go basic. But do not go with an A1 upper. For a guy as concerned as you are, go with a flat top with an attachable carry handle. You will be glad you did. Also they wont kill your wallet. www.dpmsinc.com
 
Too many makes, too many models, too many options, widely varying quality, widely varying prices, prices don't necessarily correlate with quality, rumors,...
 
Also, I am stingy. Only two people in the family that are tighter than me and they squeak when the walk.
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You beat me to the punch.. it would appear you are pretty similar to me because I go through that same thought process on most any purchase I make. Being stingy combined with a tight budget, combined with a little kid that I want to do everything I can for = the realization I probably won't buy another gun for at least 2 years so I better get this right! :)

The upside is I rarely, rarely am unhappy with things I buy. Research the crap out of it and you will likely get the one that fits your needs best.
 
I look through the AR forums, find a few builds that I think would suit my purpose, then strip them down to the bare bones and build that first. Shoot it, identify what else I might want, and then add it and test it out, one at a time. Saves money, time, and brain power.

My advice? Build a RECCE-16 style AR-15 from Bravo Company. Basic lower, GI trigger, Magpul grip & guard, VLTOR modstock ($445 shipped & transferred). BCM charging handle ($50) and bolt carrier ($150). 16" hammer forged barrel on a BCM upper with Daniel Defense flat top rail ($800ish). Flip up sights ($100) and a few mags ($50). $1500 and you've got an AR-15 that'll do nearly everything. If that's out of your budget, then replace components with more affordable ones, or go through a less expensive manufacturer. Then save up for the ACOG and/or Red Dot.
 
The obsession is based on making a choice that seems to reflect character and your sense of what merit you have in that small cross section of society.

It's not about the gun, it's about image. There are just as many who obsess about watches, cars, and cellphones, too. For men, they are key items to express what they think is their status and how they should be treated.

A real analysis of what firearm you need is much more based on how it matches the task and accomplishes it. Specify the target and range, assess the average conditions, and then build to match that - you could wind up with something entirely different than you first thought.

Instead of the named Brand of part with it's perceived top level social impact, you could wind up with a no name plain jane tool for half the cost - and twice the effectiveness.

Specify the target and range, then choose caliber, barrel length (which sets gas length,) upper (for type of optic,) furniture, and then trigger. Too many start with the wrong gun and spend double that in parts to get it back to what they should have determined first.

My list of must have cool parts never happened. I'd have spent double and got something that wouldn't function any better. Lots of us do.

My hunting carbine was determined by understanding that my average game shot is about 150# and less than 300m maximum. Since it was a low round count hunting gun, I choose 6.8SPC as the most effective caliber in that situation. I've hunted with .30-06, .308., and .30-30, in a lightweight AR15, 6.8SPC is the best choice for hunting - again, most shots are under 300m.

From there, 16" midlength, because it is the optimum barrel length in that caliber. An A3 upper, to use a red dot or low powered scope - the optimum optic, and the optimum scope mount for ease of use and cost. A fixed A1 stock, the best all around length of pull for me in a cool weather hunting coat, and inexpensive. A TD Battlegrip for size and it's availability to match the overall color scheme, entirely Foliage Green, again, the optimum year round single color for camo. Rifle handguard, to protect against a cold or hot barrel, fixed rifle length front sight for guaranteed worst case sighting in the field (loss of optic,) and a Black River Tactical Linear Comp, to throw as much noise forward for the few shots taken without hearing protection, also the optimum in a worst case situation.

Lots of that might not be what others would choose, the upper was an LAR blem, the lower a AGP, which gave me an trigger travel adjustment screw. The pull is still military, with almost no creep, and just as good as my other hunting guns. I certainly could have spent another $500 on "upgraded" stock, free float, and trigger - which would only impress people at the range, just like a $500 fly fishing reel does on the creek bank. The game animal could care less.

Instead of an internet wundergun, I got an ugly handpainted dissipator. It's taken about two years, I don't think I obsessed over it at all. :D
 
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