Why do liberals hate J. Edgar Hoover?

[Wildalaska]

And the real issue isn’t red and blue states, it’s red and blue cultures.

If by culture you mean good art and good music, then Id rather live in NYC than Alaska.

Then of course you get into the issue of bad good art and bad good music as well as good bad art and good bad music

WildkulturkampfAlaska

 

[MRex21]

I wouldn't read ANYTHING written by that politically bigoted... (edited for totally obscene language and so I can wipe the spittle off my face and keyboard). Coulter's only reason for breathing is so that people can point to her and prove there really is such a thing as the villiage idiot. The woman just oozes hate speech all the time and thinks she so important because of it. I have yet to hear her speak on any subject where within 3 sentences she doesn't call someone "stupid", "jerk", "idiot", or some other comment SPECIFICALLY designed to belittle those who don't fall all over themselves for her and her "conservative" crap. She's no more a conservative than I am and she probably spends her days thinking up imaginative ways to insult people and practicing her flim-flam-ery on her family.

A big wind and spin, spin, spin. That's Ann Coulter.

Wow. You figured all that out by yourself by not reading anything she writes?

Try reading her. You may be surprised that your vitriol is misplaced.

 

[Waitone]

First we have "your president, not my president"

Now we have "your red states live off blue states" or some such.

I guess next we'll see "your country" vs "my country"

That whole attitude is a heaping pile of steaming, fresh equine skat and should be banned from principaled discussion boards. I'm tired of reading it.

 

[Silver Bullet]

Jefferson was a champion of personal liberty and secular govt, the bane of moralistic, bible thumping, sanctimonious conservatives everywhere. Have you read his Letter to the Danbury Baptists? If he's your hero, you might want to read up on him a little. He wouldn't think much of the social attitudes of today's conservatives.

Exactly my point. I’m not equating blue and red culture with Dems and Repubs, I’m equating it with collectivism vs. rugged individualism. I’m not particularly religious, so I don’t care what Jefferson had to say on the matter.

You're spending OUR money for YOUR infrastructure.

Wrong. We’re spending the money made by the red culture (productive) members of states whose geopolitical boundaries include more blue members, but whose blue members aren’t doing the producing.

So I assume my rebate check is in the mail?

You still don’t get it. If this country were to divide up on collectivist and individualist boundaries, the red workers in the blue states would migrate over to the red states. You’d be left with the criminals, the welfare community, the NEA, Michael Jackson, and the tort lawyers.

 

[blume357]

The problem is

neither McArthy or Hoover were totally evil and both did some good. It's not like on TV or the Movies where the bad guy is always just totally bad. Hoover pretty much single handedly made the FBI the best LEA in the world. The problem, and I've seen it in other places, is that the same kind of person who has the drive and wisdom to create something like this can never let it go. They become a dictator and must hold onto their little kingdom. Once they start to fear the lose is when the 'problems' start. For Hoover to have been a truely great man he would have stepped down 30 years before he died.

 

[Helmetcase]

Wrong. We’re spending the money made by the red culture (productive) members of states whose geopolitical boundaries include more blue members, but whose blue members aren’t doing the producing.

Any data to back that up, or just pulling that from your rear? I'll bet my last dollar the blue areas have the higher GDP. If you wanna compare the money made in Manhattan against what's produced in whatever backwater red county you're talking about, knock yourself out.

You still don’t get it. If this country were to divide up on collectivist and individualist boundaries, the red workers in the blue states would migrate over to the red states. You’d be left with the criminals, the welfare community, the NEA, Michael Jackson, and the tort lawyers.

You're the one who doesn't get it. I'd be left with the consumers for whatever product you care to produce, as well as all the major centers of industry, banking, commerce, finance, education, and the like. You'd be left with the poorest, most destitute areas and all those nice highways I helped build.

 

[Musketeer]

I remember a movie we have on tape at home called The FBI Story with James Stewart. There is no doubt a lot of embellishing as it is Hollywood, but my I remember my dad telling me that many points of that movie were essentially true, such as Hoover himself approaching some gangster (who bragged that he was going to kill Hoover himself) in person and arresting him on the street.

I heard about that one. The criminal in question was already disarmed and surrounded by FBI agents when Hoover walked in, perfectly choreographed with the arrival of the arrival of the newsies, to cuff him. Hoover was not and never wanted to be a field agent.

Don't forget the memorable Hoover line "there is no such thing as the mafia." My bet is they had photos of him in a dress...

 

[Silver Bullet]

You're the one who doesn't get it. I'd be left with the consumers for whatever product you care to produce, as well as all the major centers of industry, banking, commerce, finance, education, and the like. You'd be left with the poorest, most destitute areas and all those nice highways I helped build.

Nope. You're the one who'd be left with Barbra Streisand, Nick from Wisconson, Democratic Underground.com, folks demanding $2000 debit cards, the New Orleans mayor, and a San Francisco full of folks banning handguns and the military.

 

[GoSlash27]

I have read plenty of Ms. Coulter's moonbat rantings. There are (once in a blue moon) a few kernels of truth interspersed with her flow of raw sewage. Ultimately, I think she does more to undermine the right's positions than Michael Moore does.
Notice that whenever she gets called on a particularly offensive or inaccurate screed, she falls back on her "it was a joke" excuse? I believe her. I consider her to be the "shock jock" of the right, always good for a laugh but not worthy of serious consideration. I consider her columns to be mainly satire, so far off the beaten path as to be amusing. I lump her in with the Landover Baptist Church and Ed Anger.
And I'm deeply disturbed by the fact that some people actually take her seriously.

If you want to read some truly well-articulated and persuasive arguments from the right, check out Pat Buchanan's work. He's still (IMHO) the best in the business.

 

[johnbt]

"And I'm deeply disturbed by the fact that some people actually take her seriously."

I'm bothered by it, too.

But back to WA's comment for a moment. "If by culture you mean good art and good music, then Id rather live in NYC than Alaska."

I'm curious...if a town doesn't have a huge art school, like Richmond's VCU, where do the local restaurants get their waiters and waitresses?

Okay, back to cleaning my guns.

John

 

[GoSlash27]

I'm curious...if a town doesn't have a huge art school, like Richmond's VCU, where do the local restaurants get their waiters and waitresses?

HAHAHAHA!!!
Good one

 

[TimRB]

"You're spending OUR money for YOUR infrastructure."

Maybe you should stop taxing yourselves so much.

Tim

 

[Wildalaska]

Hoover pretty much single handedly made the FBI the best LEA in the world.

The FBI was Mickey mouse till Hoover died

Hears a brief sketch of who beat the famous gangsters:

Dillinger...FBI (Purvis the guy who got hime, later got scked by Hoover for stealing Hoovers thunder)

Nelon, Karpis, Barker...FBI (in a Keystones cop fashion)

Bonnie and Clyde:Texas rangers

Capone: treasury

Nitti: Treasury

Dutch Schultz: Treaury (before he got whacked)

Murder Inc: NY DA

Luciano: NY DA

Hoover was a beuracrat, not a LEO

WildcrimelordAlaska

 

[Weeg]

I have read plenty of Ms. Coulter's moonbat rantings. There are (once in a blue moon) a few kernels of truth interspersed with her flow of raw sewage.

Same can be said about Bugle-Beak Streisand...Plus, Ann Coulter is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter an dmore educated

Ultimately, I think she does more to undermine the right's positions than Michael Moore does.

Same could be said about Streisand and the left


.

 

[GoSlash27]

Streisand?
What on earth does Streisand have to do with anything? Are there any Streisand followers around here?

 

[Helmetcase]

We probably should, doesn't look like we're getting our money's worth...but we're all under the same flag and we'll be dragged down when the red states devolve even further. It's probably all we can do to keep propping them up. But anyone who doesn't like it, make your checks out...I'm waiting.

 

[Eghad]

Hoover publically denied the existence of the Mafia and organized crime. Why?

hrmmm there are various theories given

1. That Hoover was afraid of the mafia because of the $$$ it controlled. The mafia had paid plenty of public officials to see things thier way. Hoover was afraid that the same thing would happen to the FBI. That the agents would be corrupted...and shine a poor light on the FBI. Not to mention that corruption reached into the court system and the mafia could buy good lawyers by the railroad car full. Hoover may have been afraid of taking the mafia on and getting shut down in court and being made to look bad.

2. Then there is the theory of the pics the mafia had of him performing various sexual acts with Tolson the no. 2 man in the FBI

3. He was just to lazy to get involved with the mob...too much work plus not to mention that organized crime had dealings with respectable politically connected businessmen so why rock the boat of the politically connected?

4. That Hoover liked to play the horses and would leave work in the afternoon to do so. He would place his bets at the $2.00 window while undercover agents would place the real bets at the $100.00 window. The mobster was a friend a Walter Winchell who would give Hoover the horse tips. Was reported that Hoover was a happy man winning bets. Hence happy meant not worried about the mafia.

take your pick or a combination...nobody really knows.

What happened was that the big meeting of the mafia happened and was discovered and the mafia came into the public eye. When Robert J Kennedy became Attorney General he was not scared of Hoover and constantly busted Hoovers balls over the mafia keeping him busy. However, once Kennedy was gone it was said that he slacked off on the mafia again till his death in 1972.

 

[TimRB]

"but we're all under the same flag and we'll be dragged down when the red states devolve even further."

Well, we drooling, knuckle-dragging conservatives sure appreciate your efforts, anyway. It's always heart-warming when thoughtful and helpful intellectuals come along and try to give us a hand.

Tim

 

[Helmetcase]

So I should be expecting your check soon?

 

[Silver Bullet]

I guess you need a numerical example.

Lets say blue state B has the following demographics:

200 "productively challenged." ("Blue_PC") All, of course, who vote Party D. After all, Party D is giving them welfare to buy their votes.

450 productive citizens who vote Party R. ("Blue_R")

350 productive citizens who vote Party D. ("Blue_D")

At election time, this is counted as a blue state as the blues win at the polls: 550 to 450.

Let"s say red state R has the following demographics:

5 productively challenged ("Red_PC”) productive citizens who vote Party D.

55 productive citizens who vote Party R. (“Red_R”)

40 productive citizens who vote Party D. (“Red_D”)

At election time, this is counted as a red state as the reds win at the polls: 55 to 45.

So, even if state B is a net exporter of tax money and state R is a net importer of tax money, it is silly to try and make anything of that isolated statistic if the majority of the productive citizens are actually red.

Worse, state boundaries are pretty coarse. A better indicator would be county-by-county. In the state of California, for example, which countries are paying more in taxes than they are getting back, and which are receiving more than they're paying ? And which way did they vote ? My guess, and I have to guess because I don"t know where to look this up, is that a handful of big-population, D-votin', urban blue counties are sucking up all the cash. This might not be true; LA County is huge, and encompasses an awful lot of employers (many of whom have government contracts; I'm thinking of aerospace; is that federal money included in the allocation of federal handouts ?)

Now here's where the blues really have to worry. If the country divides up geographically and politically into Blueville and Redville, those 450 Blue_R folks will move over to Redville, the 40 Red_D folks and the 5 Red_PC folks will move to Blueville.

Final demographics:

Blueville:

205 PC
390 D

Redville:

505 R

With a huge population of folks who don't work and who have been shown by Blue Hero FDR and LBJ they don"t have to work, I think Blueville is going to have problems. After all, they no longer have the Reds to carry the load.

The main problem Redville will have is defending its borders from bluenecks who are fleeing Blueville.