Why do liberals hate J. Edgar Hoover?

Hoover: I'm not easily confused with a liberal and my opinion of the man wasn't the greatest.

'Course, I'm also 55 years old.

That meant Joe McCarthy was pretty much done bringing you all the best the Inquisition and the Salem witch trials had to offer by the time I was old enough to read (though my family remembered him). Hoover was, however, contemporary.

Coulter can be pretty entertaining to read. But some stuff is starting to remind me of holocaust deniers. And it seems I'm hearing more and more of it. "Treason" is an editorial; it's not to be confused with a history text.

Guys: McCarthy and Hoover could be pretty scary, and deserve all the scorn ("examination" might be a better word) that history will heap on them...

...without any help from the liberal media.

Just facts.
Just history.

YMMV

Dig, read, research, probe and examine.
We'll all be better for it.
 
While there is no doubt that Hoover broke the law on numerous occassions, it would be nice if people would do a little research on McCarthy. A great deal of what you think you know about McCarthy is myth.
 
A great deal of what you think you know about McCarthy is myth.
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I did research it. I'll grant I'm nowhere near done.

Still no guarantee we'd agree.

Venona was an eye opener, but insufficient to shake the foundation.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and again.
 
McCarthy was actually RIGHT in a few areas...

Keep in mind that the Euro/US left wing was essentially Stalinist, the man who was easily the greatest mass murderer of all time...


He was an equal opportunity murderer though so hes not as bad as Hitler in their eyes.



WildnotcondoningmcarthyismthoughAlaska
 
HKmp5sd: I have respect for you and your views, but please read what I posted.

Ann Coulter and Treason is precisely what I said I already read and had a problem with.

Treason is NOT history.
 
Treason is not history, but Coulter blows enough holes, with documentation, in the commonly held view of McCarthy to question the accuracy of many books written on the subject. What is interesting in reading books and articles written back in the late 50s - early 60s and comparing them to anything written from 1970 onward. It is as though they are talking about two completely different people.

Of course, the same thing can be said about Hoover. I have probably 20+ books on Hoover and the FBI and they too seem to be written about completely different people. Did he break the law he was sworn to uphold merely to have power? Yep. Was he a transvestite, on the mafia's payroll, a homosexual? There is no actual proof he was any of these, yet 90% of Americans think they are true.
 
I'm less concerned with books than how my own family and teachers were affected by "McCarthyism" when I was young.

It was a positively chilling environment. And I assure you, my parents and teachers were not communists. There was a real fear of how one spoke.

My own personal memories are much in accord with what some people would describe as a "witch hunt". Does this mean I denigrate your research? No. Far from it. My background is perhaps too personal.

Similarly, with Hoover, I don't really care if he wore a red dress. I remember how my friends in DC exhibited actual fear about what was coming next (whether or not justified).

Communism may not work, it may lead to a loss of liberty, it may not be the best economic system out there, but it is not a HANGING offense to talk about it. I mean, I couldn't even ask my teacher what it was about for their (possibly groundless) fear of being lead away in shackles to testify before the HUAC (not directly associated with McCarthy - see: I'm paying attention).

Witch hunt.

I gather you weren't there.

I know Coulter wasn't.
 
...or that nincompoop Albert Einstein
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HAY NOW! Good ol' Albert is my HERO and I ain't gonna let ya git away with calling him names like that. (Yes I know it was sarcasm :D ).

Give Treason by Ann Coulter a look.
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I wouldn't read ANYTHING written by that politically bigoted... (edited for totally obscene language and so I can wipe the spittle off my face and keyboard). Coulter's only reason for breathing is so that people can point to her and prove there really is such a thing as the villiage idiot. The woman just oozes hate speech all the time and thinks she so important because of it. I have yet to hear her speak on any subject where within 3 sentences she doesn't call someone "stupid", "jerk", "idiot", or some other comment SPECIFICALLY designed to belittle those who don't fall all over themselves for her and her "conservative" crap. She's no more a conservative than I am and she probably spends her days thinking up imaginative ways to insult people and practicing her flim-flam-ery on her family.

A big wind and spin, spin, spin. That's Ann Coulter.
 
::I can't believe I'm doing this::

If it wasn't for Coulter, far fewer people would know of VENONA.

And...

It's good to know about venona.

Or, as I said before, "even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and again"
 
Ya down for a beer?
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Always. :)

It's good to know about venona.
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Speaking of Venona, if you haven't already read:

The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America's Traitors by Romerstein and Breindel

Re: McCarthy

Reds: McCarthyism in Twentieth-Centry America by Ted Morgan

Re: KGB/Communism/Spies

The Sword & The Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and The Secret History of the KGB by Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin

The World was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World by Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin
 
Yeah, we sure hate that FDR guy. And that Truman guy who desegregated the military? What a jerk! And screw that JFK guy, he slept with Marilyn Monroe and didn't let us have any. But you know who we liberals really can't stand? That Gandhi guy! And Medgar Evers, and Vernon Dahmer, and Rosa Parks, no love for those people. Certainly no love for Thomas Jefferson's ideas, or that nincompoop Albert Einstein.
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Oops, I meant to say the statists, socialists, and collectivists have no heroes.

Meanwhile, your list of liberals heroes is interesting. You guys are so hard up you’re claiming FDR and JFK as heroes ? And I would say everybody admires and respects Gandhi, not just liberals.

Jefferson? He’s a hero, all right; a red culture hero. He represents small government and individualism, just the opposite of the blue culture with its nanny state and collectivism. The blues have been busy trying to run him down by focusing on his personal life to the exclusion of his contributions to the country.

Your heroes are people like Al Sharpton, Larry Flynt, and Michael Moore. Right ? Aren’t these folks featured prominently at Democrat conventions ?
 
Signature about moving into "Republican" school districts...
Interesting how the net flow of tax dollars is FROM blue states TO red states. Might explain why we like your school districts, we're building them for you. If you don't like it and want to turn off the spicket, I can send you an address where you can mail me a rebate check.
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A worthless statistic. Some of these red states, such as Montana, have a lotta highway to pay for because of the size of the states, with a small population. In Montana’s case, they also have big National Parks to maintain.

What is the breakdown by red and blue county ?

And the real issue isn’t red and blue states, it’s red and blue cultures.

My guess is that some of these hotbeds of blue tax-payers are cities that grew on the backs, vision, and initiative of red-value types a hundred years ago. Then after the city grew large and prospered, it attracted blue-value ne’er-do-wells who flocked in for handouts, and then the city’s population was predominantly blue. Now you have blue states crowing about how they’re feeding the red states, whereas in reality it is still the red culture feeding everybody.

The beauty of this is, you need us and we don’t need you.
 
Hoover was a flaming homosexual who blackmailed political leaders in order to keep his position.

Plain and simple
 
I guess the politicians shouldn't have been doing something they knew was wrong then hoover wouldn't had anything to blackmail them with.;) Can't be blackmailed if you're honest upstanding person. Nothing to hold over your head.
 
Coulter has em

I love Ann Coulter, she has the yarbles (is that cussing) to give the lib's back what they puke-out w/every waking breath. She's got more nads than most of the politicians in Washington. my opinion, that is, and im intitled to it. I loved it when she said on T.V. the other night when asked by the interwiewer about getting hit by pies by a couple of 'world-savers' and she corrected him and said ''no i didnt get hit because they were liberals and throw like girls''. and i dont care if i spelled her name wrong either, just incase i did
 
Jefferson? He’s a hero, all right; a red culture hero. He represents small government and individualism, just the opposite of the blue culture with its nanny state and collectivism. The blues have been busy trying to run him down by focusing on his personal life to the exclusion of his contributions to the country.
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Jefferson was a champion of personal liberty and secular govt, the bane of moralistic, bible thumping, sanctimonious conservatives everywhere. Have you read his Letter to the Danbury Baptists? If he's your hero, you might want to read up on him a little. He wouldn't think much of the social attitudes of today's conservatives. Sally Hemmings wasn't available for comment, but you can rest assured she'd agree with me. :D

A worthless statistic. Some of these red states, such as Montana, have a lotta highway to pay for because of the size of the states, with a small population. In Montana’s case, they also have big National Parks to maintain.
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If you have any tech or information to suggest that highway costs are the reason for the delta between blue and red, I'd love to see it. Though it seems pretty clear it doesn't matter what it's spent on, the bottom line is the red states are living off the blue states. I don't care if you spend it on roads, schools, or cheerleading pompoms for the high school pep squad. You're spending OUR money for YOUR infrastructure.

Now you have blue states crowing about how they’re feeding the red states, whereas in reality it is still the red culture feeding everybody.
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Your culture feeds us? You're right, everyone in Baltimore and NYC and Boston is dying to get the latest cultural trends from Kansas and Nebraska :rolleyes:. Both cultures have their places, but it's ridiculous to suggest that one can't get by without the other. If anything, they each necessarily exist as an alternative to the other. America wouldn't be the same if one or the other wasn't here.

The beauty of this is, you need us and we don’t need you.
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So I assume my rebate check is in the mail? I was eyeing up a compact Glock .40 for the fiance and some 00 Buck for my arsenal. Some Xmas presents maybe...tell ya what, you can Pay Pal it to me!
 
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