WHY DO GUYS CONCERN THEMSELVES WITH 25YRD ACCURACY?

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It does not matter if your an LEO or not. If someone is 25 50 or even 200 yards away from you and firing at you your justified in defending yourself. No one in my department would charge you. As for civil suits you can get sued for anything accept the fact that if there is a shooting there will be a law suit but that does not mean they will win. Besides better alive and litigated then dead.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
This topic has changed my mind on what two pistols to put on my carry licence. Forget the 1955 Browning 380 and the Hi-Power Practical in 9x19.

The little one's gonna be a 3" target sighted Chiefs in 38. The big one will be a target sighted 4" K frame 357 (with round butt) 19/66.

Why? Cause it would take me another 30 years to get two other pistols programmed into my head so indelibly.

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How could I have missed? The sights were dead on when I closed my eyes and pulled the trigger!
 
45automan: I agree that there is no much importance of being accurate in 25yrds as most gun fight might be 8, 10 to 15 yrds. 15 yrds even very far already to shoot someone. How much more to a distance of 25. I have good accuracy at 10 yrds with 2 to 3 inches groups in a double tap mode. Shooting an adversary or a BG at 25 yrds will make me hesitate if I could hit him a surgical shot. If I shoot one it must be a distance that I can surely hit him. We could not make the pistol to a rifle capability in long range.

Even in combat shooting, we could hardly hit a very near target when we are moving, how much much more to a 25 yrds range. It is so different to hit an stationary target. ' am talking from experience.
 
Damn... it all started nicely with an idea that it does not hurt at all to practice shooting at 25 yards in order to be better at closer ranges (just in case) and ended with very serious talk on how to shoot moving BGs at point blank range and get out of the court alive...
 
Regarding learning to shoot, I was taught that you should start off at 7 yds or close enough to the target that you can put 90% of your hits within a given size target (I use the NRA standard 5.5" bullseye/25 yds target) and then move on to the next distance. When you are able to put 90% of your hits into the same target area at that distance, move up to the next.

In some states such as Texas it appears to be legal to pursue a felon without a CCW. In that case shots at 25 yds or better would be possible. In California you cannot shoot anyone not a clear and immediate danger to you or others, so they need to be facing a victim and would probably be within 15 yds.
 
J.Parker,
I whole heartedly agree with you sir, thats the way it should be.


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No man is above the law and no man is below it,nor do we ask any mans permission when we require him to obey it.
 
I also agree that most gun-fights occur within 15-20 feet. When at the range I do practice at that distance but the majority of my time is spent firing at 25 yard targets. Why? You ask.

It takes skill/practice to shoot small groups at 25 yards.. I shoot more for sport and enjoyment than Combat training.

Shooting several hundred rounds at 15 feet would be very dull.
 
Hmmm...sub MOA at 25yds, that's less than quarter inch group at 25yds or less than one inch at 100yds. Excellent for a handgun.

Sam
 
Not all of us are soldiers of fortune and SWAT officers. Some of us shoot because we enjoy the sport. Hitting things at long range is a challenge.

Fear the man with the single action revolver. He hits what he shoots at.
 
MoutainGun: Like the comment on the SA shooter :)
Sure, 'defense' even 'LEO' practical trinining could and should be at closer ranges - a handgun is not a rifle or carbine.
Slightly off subject though: About ten (?) years back had the privilidge of an afternoon at a sort of 'intoductory' course in Switzerland - one of the leading trainers of VIP security as well as Swiss LEO's (bleieve me, they take guns seriuosly there!). The first stage of a two month (or more) course was learning to make a reasonble group, one handed, at 25 meters. After that, the ranges closed up, isoceles and weaver and such were practiced and so on - the point was to teach contol over the handgun right at the start. Another odd note - passing that initial stage, shooters were encouraged to drop to the ground (lacking good cover) and shoot prone - at anything more than 20 meters: If you are having to shoot at that range, you are most certainly 'on the defensive' and have already been under fire - so keep the smallest profile and get the greatet accuracy... there was a lot more but this seems the most rlevant bit i can recall -
Hasta pronto! - Peter Knight in Cordoba - Argentina
 
I shoot CDP in IDPA and IPSC Limited with my carry gun. Therefore, I want a pistol that shoots 3 inches or less at fifty yards. My Baer does that and it is 100 per cent reliable. Accurate pistols can be reliable and practicing at 25 yards or more is necessary to be competitive.

BTW: Shooting accurately at 25 yards and beyond requires a different skill set than shooting fast and accuratley at close yardages. Just because a guy can shoot one inch groups at 25 yards doesn't mean he can shoot the A Zone in an El Presidente in 6 or 7 seconds. Case in point, I shoot Master Class in PPC, Expert in IDPA, and Class C in IPSC.

[This message has been edited by Ron Ankeny (edited August 21, 2000).]
 
In my life time I had to draw my weapon for real 4 time. First time the range was about 20 yards (BG with shotgun in a restaurant parking lot). Second time the range was 12 yards (BG came through my front door with a screw driver at night and I was behind the bed in my bedroon). Third time was a idot with a rifle shooting our trash can at the cabin from about 50 yards away. Finally an attempted arm robery at 3 or 4 yards (BG with a knife).

When I practice I shoot from 3 yards out to 50 yards with my handguns.
 
Practice at long ranges is something like a life insurance policy. On an average the life expenctency is 75 years +/- but you buy life insurance to care for your loved ones if you are not part of the average. The same with long range practice, the average armed encounter is 7 yards or less but you need to be ready for that encounter that does not fall within the average.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Target practice at 25 & 50 yards helps many folks when the target moves up to 8-15 yards. An instance may occur when you don't want the bad guy to get that close. Being able to handle your weapon at 25-50 yards only makes tactical sense. Don't limit your self to what you may shoot at a typical combat match. A good combat match would also have a 20-25 yard shot, just to keep you in training.

[This message has been edited by Ned Roundtree (edited August 22, 2000).]
 
The odds of needing (and justifying) use of a pistol at 25 yds and out are about the same as a housewife needing a 5000 pound 4WD to haul a bag of groceries. Just because you can do it--or want to do it--or like to do it--doesn't mean that it makes a great deal of sense.

But hey--this is cyberspace.



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Marksmanship is an indispensable component of handgun defense. Work on marksmanship out to as far as you are able.

Once you have acquired good marksmanship, you will be ready for additional training and practice in order to use your gun as a defensive tool. Much of this training will be shooting at targets much closer than the distances used to develop good marksmanship.
Maintain your level of marksmanship by shooting at the farthest targets you can hit.

Regards,

Ledbetter
 
What can it hurt to learn to be a good shot out to 25 yards and beyond. By shooting random distances, helps to give you a better eye for judging distances. And as for court. If some guy is pot shoting me from 25 yards I'm gonna pop um and worry about court later. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I wanna be around for the trial. I think the main thing here is to be prepared for any eventually. It's better to be over trained then to lack training in a fire fight. A gun fight is no place to be guessing how good a shot are. Hone your skills as sharply as possible and then when it's time, you'll be the one walking away.

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***Torpedo***
It's a good life if you can survive it!
 
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