Why do gun owners vote for anti gun candidates?

Dudes the issue of control of womens reproductive organs is not a subject for this Board is it?

Can we find less inflammatory means to make the points being made? Unless some folks wish to preach? Which I am sure will lead to the lock, et seq....

WildandiambeinggoodandkeepingmymouthshutAlaska TM
 
Dudes the issue of control of womens reproductive organs is not a subject for this Board is it?

Can we find less inflammatory means to make the points being made? Unless some folks wish to preach? Which I am sure will lead to the lock, et seq....

Yeah, I was thinking about throwing the standard "please for the love of all that is right and holy don't debate this actual issue, but rather simply let it stand as an example of a divisive issue" disclaimer...but figured it probably wouldn't do any good anyway. Never has in the past.

Like I said, it certainly wouldn't have been my first choice of issues to use as an example.

Guess that's what I get for the whole "eating babies" hyperbole. :D
 
Ok, ok, you guys have a good point. I won't mention abortions anymore.:)

I'm pretty much with the Republican platform Juan. However, I do not dislike all Democrats. I always vote for Rep. John Dingell (who happens to be about as pro-gun as you can get) and I did vote for Govenor Granholm in this last election in Michigan.

So I vote Republican the majority of the time but not always. Someone mentioned Sen. Feingold. He's an honest, decent man IMHO. No, not all Democrats are "bad" IMHO.

However, I won't vote for Hillary Clinton. She's not honest or decent IMHO. I'd vote for my dog before I voted for her.:p
 
My father in law is a die hard democrat. He said if it was between Hilary and Thompson he would vote for Hillary.
But the day before he said that he was talking about how awful it would be if Hillary was president.
Me I'm voting Thompson, he was good as a Senator for TN and he shares all the same views that I have.
 
"Obama...pfft...not electing a Muslim in today's world. Sorry. I don't believe he is bad or believes as the extremists do. But, I don't believe he would be the strength against the extremists that we need. Call me a racist or religionist...but I am not. I have muslim friends. I just don't believe our country should have a Muslim for a leader during the situation we are in right now."

CrazyIvan are you serious! Obama is a Christian! Where did you hear that he was Muslim?

My reason, in brief, is that I would rather have reasonable gun control than have my job shipped overseas, a government system that favors the rich, or endless war. All of which we have right now. The gun control under Clinton did not take away our 2nd amendment rights.
 
My reason, in brief, is that I would rather have reasonable gun control than have my job shipped overseas, a government system that favors the rich, or endless war. All of which we have right now. The gun control under Clinton did not take away our 2nd amendment rights.
Giving Hitler the Rhineland via the Maastricht Treaty didn't start WWII in and of itself, but the concession rather than beating him down before getting to full strength brought it about. I'm telling you, negotiating and concession with these people is not going to give good results. Taking a Neville Chamberlain attitude is not what is going to cut it.
 
Obama...pfft...not electing a Muslim in today's world.

Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ, which is about as mainstream Protestant Christian as you can get.

Yes, his middle name is Hussein, and yes, his first name is just one letter off "Osama", but please don't parrot the whole "stealth Muslim who went to a madrassa in Indonesia as a kid" nonsense, which has been thoroughly debunked.

There are many reasons to not vote for him, but his religion is not one of them.
 
Tom: Without question, if the the Clintons' had their way, the 2nd Amendment would be abolished.

I'm absolutely astonished that someone could say the gun control attitude of the Clintons' was reasonable.

If the Democrats weren't voted out of the majority in Congress in 1994, you would have seen very unreasonable gun control proposals/laws.

Bill Clinton made it the official position of the Attorney General's Office that the 2nd Amendment was a collective right, not an individual right! What more do I need to say? (I could write for hours but you get the point.)

If Hillary Clinton is elected there is no doubt in my mind that you will see the most anti-gun President in U.S. history. Even worse than her husband if that is possible IMHO. This is especially so if the anti-gun Democrats hold the majority in Congress. Get ready to turn in your guns if this happens.

This will be a horrible situation unless, of course, the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean as much to you as other issues.

All of the pro-gun voters who vote for anti-gun Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.

We better win the Parker case in the Supreme Court before the Democrats gain the Presidency!!
 
We better win the Parker case in the Supreme Court before the Democrats gain the Presidency!!

This would make me a very, very happy man. It would neuter a lot of the anti-gun Democrats, making my voting decisions much easier.
 
Two words.... Union ties. I'm a non-union construction worker. If I had a dollar for every guy I saw on a site with NRA/hunting/gun-related shirt, sticker, or hat on and a Kerry/Edwards sticker on his truck or hard hat or lunch cooler or toolbox, I'd be rich. Makes me chuckle every time.
 
I don't think that's a correct assessment.

But even if it was, how would that be any worse than standing by while all the other rights take it in the pants, just because your gun rights haven't been curtailed any further?
 
How long would you hold onto your guns, if the 1st amendment were gone?

Those of you that think the 2A is the "litmus test" had better think long and hard before you answer.

Should the government control all media, how would you know whether or not they started to confiscate guns in Boise? Who would send out the word? How would they do it? How could you protest, if speech were controlled?

Would you go into a "free speech" zone to protest governmental actions? - and be subsequently cordoned off and arrested...

How would you coordinate and deploy your militia, if you couldn't get the word out? Of what use are your weapons now? How is your right to keep and bear arms of any use in preventing tyranny, when you can't communicate with each other? All of the technology we use today can be monitored, intercepted and outright jammed by any government that rescinds free speech.

The little scenario above is just one freedom that is in jeopardy, in which your guns would be useless - assuming you still have them.

When you start elevating one right over another, you place in jeopardy all of your rights. None of my rights are negotiable...

For you one issue voters, are your other rights negotiable? If not, then why vote strictly for RKBA when there are other, just as important issues, at stake?
 
Agreed, and in such it is important that we should start to assert separation of government and media. Maybe see to it that various means such as Ham radio become de-regulated.
 
I remember about 50 years ago listenting to a speech about that. Don't know how accurate it was but he was saying that the first thing in taking over a group is to take over the media. You control the media and you can then control everything else. Without communications you are fighting alone no matter how many guns you have. :)
 
Antipitas made a good point about the 1st amendment, with it's loss, you lose the 2nd and more. But it is the Democrats that are going after the guns, I think we can all agree on that, although some very reluctantly. It's also the Democrats that are behind most of the "hate laws" that will soon morph into "hate speech" ala European style. There goes the 1A. Not to mention that the overwhelming sentiment of the main stream media is far to the left. The fairness act is another example of the left trying to silence the right (and center) Then we have taxes. Again, no doubt that the Democrats are the ones that push punitive taxes on all of us. Another form of control. If you control the guns, speech, media, and money, then you have your hands on the helm of the entire country.
And this propaganda that they are only going after the corporations and the richest Americans is a lot of BULL. Heavy taxation sifts down the the poorest American through increased costs for everything. We are slowly turning into a Nanny state. Examples are Hillary's help for people with their mortgages, paid for by tax payer money. And "FREE" health care. RIGHT.
Abraham Lincoln said you can't make a poor man rich, by making a rich man poor. (Karl Marx would disagree) Of course the left has never been a big fan of Lincoln.
Many on this site know that the left is going after our gun rights, but also think that they should not be a single issue voter. What about our other rights? Well, if we take our heads out of the sand, we could see clearly that the left is going after all of our rights. One at a time.
In my opinion, the leftist leaders of our country view Americans as a mass of drooling idiots, that need to be controlled and guided. THEY KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR US. Just ask Hillary, the smartest woman in the world. (you know, the one that flunked her bar exam.)
If a candidate that asks for you vote, and you know he or she is willing to trash your 2nd amendment rights, do you in your wildest dreams think they give a damn about any of your other rights? Lets stop turning a blind eye to the truth.
 
The sad part....

....is that there are so few candidates that respect all rights/freedoms.

I try to look beyond the stance on an issue, to the reason behind the stance on that issue. In other words, does the candidate take a certain stance because they fundamentally are a collectivist, or becuase they are making a pragmatic exception to a generally individuallist mind set.

In that sense, the RKBA can be just as poor a litmus test as some other issues. A pol can support the 2A just because he grew up hunting like his constituents and enjoys the having the support of the NRA. He may be merely upholding his memories of the good 'ol days when fine young Christian white men grew up with a love of guns, hunting, and apple pie. When push comes to shove, this guy may not really believe in the 2A as a means of overthrowing oppression and as an inalienable individual right; in fact, he's the guy who will likely support "common sense" gun laws, especially if the mostly effect the urban dwelling minorities who aren't his constituency, anyway.

I take the same philosophy with other issues. We seem collectively afraid of discussing the A-word issue here, but the reasons behind a pol's stance on that one can also provide insights on how that pol's views are formed on the RKBA. I can support pol's on either side of that issue, depending on the "why" and how that "why" will effect his philosophy on other issues, such as RKBA. On the No-A-word side, if the pol feels that way because he believes people have inalienble rights to things like life, self-defense, guns, free speech, etc. and that those rights just happen to start at conception, I'll support him; he'll probably be a true, pricipled friend of the RKBA. If a pol takes the same stance, but does so because of religious convictions, I may still vote for him as the lesser of two evils, but I'll never fully trust him becuase he's beholden to his religion, not my freedoms.

On the surface, more pro A-word folks are anti-RKBA, but there are exceptions, and the reasons for those matter, too. If a pol falls on the pro-A-word side because he's a Libertarian thinking dude who doesn't give a rat's hindquarters whether or not you kill your offspring, I can vote for that guy, too--he probably doesn't care what guns I own as long as I don't point them at him. If a pol feels pro-A word because they believe a female has a "right" to escape the consequences of her actions, I won't vote for that guy; he'll try to mug me for money help others escape the consequences of not planning for retirement, planning for ill health, etc. And he'll also try to absolve others of the responsibility for defending themselves by disarming all of us.

Rather than worry about any single contentious issue, I just focus on whether a pol is more concerned with freedom or security. Unfortunately, we have two parties that pander to two sets of insecurities, and (other than maybe Ron Paul) only third parties that are truly worried about freedom:

R's: pander to our fear of Islamists, of eroding family values, of eroding morality, of losing our right/means to defend ourselves, of losing our income to government muggers, of hoards of illegal immigrants, etc.

D's: pander to our fears of losing our Social Security handout, of being "forced" to bear a child, of being bankrupted by medical costs, of having to hear slurs against our particular minority, of having other countries think we're mean, etc.

So, I feel the R's pander to a set of fears that I'm more likely to share (so I tend to side with them), but they''re still trading liberty for safety in such things as music sensorship, the PAtriot Act, etc. Likewise, tehy're support for the 2A may be more based in fear than principle....

That's my rambling quota for the day.:barf:
 
But I find that a candidate's stance on RKBA is a fairly reliable "litmus test" as to whether or not he is going to have the right stance on other issues. There certainly can be exceptions, but it's exceedingly rare that an "anti" politician will support my views on other issues.

This is a fair litmus test. For you.

Now, is there some reason you'd assume that all pro-gun voters agree with you on those other issues and more?
I think if you deleted the word "all" in "all pro-gun voters" I'd have to say that yes, I'd expect the majority of pro-gun voters WOULD tend to agree with me on most - again, not all - other issues.

For example, consider the following beliefs:

* Our government isn't large enough or all-encompassing enough . . .

* Our government doesn't spend enough money . . .

* Our Federal taxes are far too low . . .

* "Illegal alien" is a perjorative term which ought to be banned, and we should welcome our undocumented friends from Mexico, allow them to vote upon arrival, and make them citizens post-haste.

I believe most politicians who support the four samples above are unlikely to be in the pro-RKBA arena, and most voters who support RKBA are unlikely to agree with these points, either.
 
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