WHY DO A LOT OF GUYS HATE THE 9MM?

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I think the Doctor nailed it. The three biggest advantages of the 9mm are capacity, capacity and size of the guns. Now that you have to pay $50+ for a 15 round mag for that Beretta 92, people tend to just buy the 96 and get 10 rounds of a bigger bullet.

On size, the 9mm can still shine, but even in the smallest autoloaders in this caliber (Glock, Kahr, Kel Tec) you can get the same gun in .40.

The 9mm has less kick, but I don't think that it is really that much less kick. And once you are experienced with handgunning the larger calibers can be controlled just as easily.

And finally for some of us bigger just seems better. It may be psycological, and I can know in my head that a 9mm can do the job just as well as anything else, there is something comforting about having a .45 on my hip.
 
I think what's more important that the caliber of gun you carry is how well you shoot it and how confident you are with the weapon you're carrying. I carried .38 special revolvers and felt fine with them because I could hit what I aimed at. I have graduated to semi autos and I agree with those who feel that if they shoot well with the big caliber guns then they have an advantage in that one shot knock down power. I personally always feel kinda over gunned when I carry an 8 or 10 shot semi because I started out with 6 and 5 shooters and I always felt that they could handle the situation. We used to say that if you couldn't get the job done with 6 shots then you weren't going to get thet job done. A 9mm with the right load in competent hands will do the job, as will .38 or .40 or .45 under the same circumstance. Placement will always be more important that caliber. Just my humble opinion.

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***Torpedo***
Life is great if you can survive it!
 
My next door neighbor used to be a Compton cop back in the late 70s/early 80s. He said he saw his partner shoot a guy on PCP 13 times with a 9mm. Then, the guy proceeded to throw his partner across the squad car. Eventually they subdued the guy and he was DOA. My neighbor said all the cops in Compton started carrying any of the following: .45, .357, .41 mag or .44 mag. That's why I hate the 9mm and would never stake my life on it. Bigger is better. The guy above said it right: Shoot the biggest caliber that you feel confident in shooting. I don't care what stats on paper say. A 230 grain slug is better than a 115 grain slug, especially with all the exotic ammo they have nowadays.
 
Oh yea, I'd like to add the following. I think they have documented proof of people getting shot straight through the heart with either a .38 or 9mm and these people keep on fighting for a deadly length of time. I'm not so sure they have that stat for .45s. And if they do, the instances of it happening are probably fewer and farther between. Long live the .45.
 
I do not hate the 9mm. I shoot it quite well and with the right bullet design, it is an effective caliber. Those who choose the 9mm as their primary caliber should be respected. I will guarantee you 98% of them can hit their intended target 98% of the time.

I will echo that I prefer my bullets to be pre-expanded and thus the .45ACP is my caliber of choice. In a scenario where hollowpoints are not available, I would not feel unprotected with a 230 grain ball round. If hollowpoints are accessible, I will take the Federal 230 Grain Hydrashok JHP thank you. My theory is that the handgun is a stop-gap method of getting you to your rifle or shotgun so mag capacity does not bother me. Furthermore, I prefer the .45ACP as a companion to my hunting rifle while stalking Whitetail in the thick timber and river bottoms of the Deep South. I feel much better with the .45ACP vs. the 9mm when it comes to wild hogs and an occasional gator.

I will confess that when the greatest nation in the world switched from the .45ACP ball to the 9mm ball, I got ticked off. I still believe that the .45ACP is superior to the 9mm in ball ammo configuration when it comes to shear energy and fight-stopping "umph". The last time I checked we had the strongest economy in the world and we bailed Europa out of a bind not once but twice. That having been said, we should dictate to NATO what caliber we want to carry. If they don't agree, what can happen? A new ammo factory or two in AMERICA providing AMERICAN jobs? Would that be so bad?

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
45automan,

I don't hate the 9mm (used to own a 92FS), but

a. a .45 is pre-expanded
b. a .40 is faster
c. the advantage of the high cap magazines is gone

I started shooting .45 ACP when I went in the service years ago, and it just works better for me. Now, many are learning to shoot a 9mm, and maybe it works for them.

Would I like to get shot with a 9mm? H*ll no! But I'd like getting shot with a .45 even less, and let's not talk about a 12 guage.

Casey
 
A,

There ARE instances where people have been shot through the heart with a .45 and kept functioning. The human heart can sustain a pretty incredible puncture wound and be almost self sealing to the point where it will continue to function for a considerable period of time.

Regarding your friend's experience with the 9mm, I'd be VERY interested in knowing what kind of ammo was being carried, and what, if anything, the person was on.

Not too many years ago in the DC Metro area a man on PCP absorbed 11 .357 Mag. slugs and 2 close-range shotgun blasts before finally bleeding out.

What you've described can, quite simply, happen with ANY handgun round.

Let's face it folks, when it comes to actually stopping someone, a handgun, ANY handgun, isn't a great choice!

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
In reply to the original post:
My reason for liking the 9mm is purely financial. Here in Holland the .40 and .45 are almost twice as expensive as a 9mm. Being a student on a low income, and only shooting for sport (as all private gun owners here), that's all the reason I need!
But there's something bigger waiting round the corner, for sure!
 
A lot of the negativity about the 9mm stems from one shot, fired against one of the bad guys in the infamous "Miami Shootout". The agent's Winchester Silvertip eventually killed the bad guy, but it took long enough that the BG was able to wreak more havoc before going down. This touched off the whole series of FBI and INS ammo evaluations that found the subsonic 9mm "inadequate".

I will grant that the .45 makes a bigger hole, and several calibers carry more energy to the target, but the 9mm has accounted for many a bad guy. I think the key is to avoid the heavy subsonic bullets and get something that is moving fast enough to generate some hollow point expansion. Triton Hi-Vels, Speer Gold Dots and Cor-Bons in the 115-125 grain range all qualify. If properly placed, they will penetrate and expand enough to do the job.

The 9mm has a couple of advantages. It can allow for a small weapon like a Kel-Tec P-11 or Colt's late lamented Pocket Nine (I really wanted one, before Colt got gun-shy). It can allow for a lot of rounds in a standard sized weapon. Since it's a military standard all over the world, practice FMJ ammo is cheap, and practice can make a 9mm more effective than a .44 Magnum in the hands of a novice. The recoil level is not intimidating for newbies or female shooters (you should have seen Thelma freak out the first time she fired my .357 Ruger Blackhawk).

IMHO, the 9mm is on the lower end of the truly effective cartridges, but is still effective. I'd rather pack the extra size/weight than resort to a .380 or .32, which just don't pack enough downrange punch.
 
For one thing, that Chicago badguy that absorbed 33 rounds of 9 also absorbed TWO rounds of 12 gauge slug at close range. An officer in Alabama I think shot a badguy 5 times with a .357 mag. The badguy lived, and killed the cop with 1 shot of .22 lr. Fact, the only thing that really matters in handguns, anyway, is shot placement. If the 9mm was so underpowered, it wouldn't be used by the majority of Spec. Ops groups in the world. The real detriment these days is the hi-cap mag ban. And for most guns, you can still get quality after market mags for your 9mm cheap.

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"Vote with a Bullet."
 
Hey Glenn,

Sometimes a 9mm IS just a 9mm. :)

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
People dislike the 9mm because of the following factors:

1. .45 being the US issue weapon for years
2. a lot of "experts" have a stake in the continued dominance of the 1911
3. real inadequacy of 9mm hardball in civilian context
4. early feed unreliability of hollowpoints
5. the idea that simply because a bigger caliber exists, it must be better
6. the idea that "real shooters" can handle something bigger

The key to remember is that what we are looking for is a caliber that we can shoot on our worst day rapidly, and with good shot placement. Most shooters can handle a .44 mag but not effectively on a bad day. For all the big bore fans, try this: run 2 miles with arm weights so your heart is pounding and your arms are quivering. That should approximate how you feel during an emergency situation. Then hit the range. If you can use your weapon effectively under those circumstances, great. If you can't, you are potentially endagering yourself and others. Work out and train to the point that you can. By the way, I probably couldn't do the above so I'm taking my own advice.



[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited July 05, 2000).]
 
9mm has the same problem as any MILLITARY round, the Hauge Convention of 1899. The early report on the 9x19 were by and large based on Mil-Spec Hardball and thus were not trully great. Also the 9x19 had to get over the hump of being on the loosing side of 2 world wars (yea I know the Brits and Canadians used it too.. ;) ) and then there is the classic NMH (not made here). All of these reasons are in some part responsable for the dislike of the 9x19.
 
It's a great round - lot's of power for the size of the cartridge (and guns it shoots in) - my next handgun purchases will be a Glock 34 (9mm - my first one) or possibly a Springfield V16 in .45 Super.
 
You should shoot the largest caliber that you can comfortably handle. - We've all heard something along these lines before.

That said, I have yet to meet an experienced handgun shooter who cannot comfortably, accurately, and effectively utilize a 45acp pistol.
 
Eric,

Even given your statement is true, the typical .45 handgun doesn't conceal nearly as well as some of the 9mm choices. It's not only the control of the gun, it's also the ability to conceal it in your environment. I own a number of .45ACP guns, and I have no problem putting rounds on target with them. Their only problem is they're all much bigger than the Keltec P11.
 
Perhaps, but we aren't talking about concealment. Everyone would trade in their 9mms for .40s, if that were the case. (As many have done.)

The post deals with "why a lot of guys hate the 9mm?" (For the record, I don't hate the 9mm. It's a fine cartridge.) All things being equal, bigger is better. Since I've yet to meet an experienced handgun shooter who cannot comfortably, accurately, and effectively utilize a 45acp pistol, the 45acp should always get the nod over lesser cartridges.
 
First of all, Get the HK P7M8. I just bought one two weeks ago and LOVE it. I routinely carry a Glock 27, but this P7 is now my FAVORITE pistol. I don't particularly like 9mm over .40 and .45, but I can shoot this P7 better than any other gun I own, and like the people have said, shot placement IS EVERYTHING. This P7 is the most accurate gun I have ever shot. It shoots dead on, no flyers. I have a six shot group at 10 yards, rapid fire, all shots touching, nothing out of the 10 ring. This is a great gun, and I can hit with it, so I'm thinking about carrying it over the Glock. Get the P7. Don't worry about the caliber.
 
He's right! Get the P7 or the P7M8.

The 9mm is just fine. Most of the world's militaries and police forces are still using the 9mm as the issued round. It's deadly and light recoiling. Please.

Some people just love paying $225 for a case of 45 ACP. Me, I like reloading with the best components and hollowpoint bullets for $3.75 a box of 50. 9mm is easy and cheap to reload.

Great for training and the streets.

Is a bad guy going to stop and refuse to drop if you tag him with a 9mm round. I don't think so. It's all about placement. PERIOD.

All this other hype is for guys who aren't filling in their trousers.

If 9 isn't sufficient, please stand in front of my Glock 19 and take a couple of shots from this "ineffective" round.

Most police agencies are not reporting any more "stops" with the SW40 than they did with the 9mm. Folks and their big guns. I understand but it's pathetic.

Get the P7 and let your shots do the talking.

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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
 
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