Why aren't today's semi-auto pistols more reliable?

I haven't shot anywhere near as much as most of the regulars here, but I would guess that the OP's experiences seems to be rather unusual.

I've personally shot about 4,500 rounds through mostly two guns (CZ SP-01, CZ PCR), with no failures since the break-in period (a couple double-feeds early on with the SP-01, not included in that round count). I've taken classes consisting of over a dozen people shooting 400 rounds each, without a single failure between them.

Before I bought my gun, I shot a bunch of different rental guns, putting 100-200 rounds through nine different models, and didn't experience a single failure.
 
There is a very basic Quality Assurance factor that is being missed: Every part has a number of identifiable "defects ". The larger number of parts, all other design factors being equal, the lower reliability.

A revolver will have fewer parts, therefore likely fewer (potential) defects, which can be directly correlated to a quality number, be it MTBF, average faults per shot or whatever metric you like.
 
I bought my first handguns in the early '80s when the gun magazine authors' consensus was only a revolver should be carried for law enforcement or self defense, because semiautos were deemed to be unreliable. The writers cautioned than anyone buying a semiauto should plan on taking it to a gunsmith at least once to make it reliable. Even then, they advised being familiar with how to quickly clear malfunctions.

I bought two semiautos at the time -- a Browning Challenger III for plinking and car carry, and a Beretta Bobcat chambered in .22 LR for the wife to use for self defense. The Browning has never had a problem except for the occasional bad round that fails to fire, a problem common to ammo of that caliber. The Beretta scared me with a tendency to fire two rounds with one pull of the trigger, a slam fire, and failures to feed. A trip to the local gunsmith made it run fine.

Today gun manufacturers offer warrantees that I don't think existed back then. The four centerfire pistols I've bought this decade have run flawlessly, except for my thumb inadvertently activativing the slidestop on one (I since changed the gun's grips and my grip on the gun).

Cars are far more reliable than they were 40 years ago. So are semiauto pistols.
 
Semiauto pistols (the well-made ones) have been reliable for over a hundred years. If they weren't reliable, we would all be shooting revolvers today.
The US military adopted them in 1911....:rolleyes:
 
A revolver will have fewer parts, therefore likely fewer (potential) defects, which can be directly correlated to a quality number, be it MTBF, average faults per shot or whatever metric you like.
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That's wrong in both parts count and how MTBF is calculated.

As an example, a S&W M29 double action revolver has 79 parts. The 1911, which is often criticized "for having too many parts," has 53 parts for a 70 series design. This includes counting parts with an extreme MTBF and essentially a zero percent failure rate like grip panels, grip screws, pins, sights, disconnector, mainspring strut, etc.

Glocks, HK's and SIGS have fewer parts than the 1911 by a significant amount.

I've done MTBF calculations for the US Army Corps of Engineers, and there are a whole lot of interrelated factors that account for failure rates that include interaction with other parts, materials, stress on the parts, operating temperature, etc.

Fewer parts don't directly correlate to a potential for fewer failures - that's an Internet meme that gets propagated because it sounds like it logically should be true - and it's not.
 
I think a clean well maintained pistol is very reliable. Any issue I have ever had is directly related to something I should have addressed or ammo.
When you say bet your life on it reliability. That does change things a bit. I have never been lucky. My SD/HD gun is a Beretta 96. I have never had an issue with the ammo/mag combination thats loaded in it. I also from time to time take it from its drawer and transport it to the range as it sits in the drawer and test it. It may not be 100%, but at 2am when I have to reach for it its the best bet I have.
 
HMmmm. I have two 1911 pistols. Both made in the Philippines and both under 500 bucks when I bought them.
Thousands of rounds through both of them and not a single malfunction.
Go figure..
 
...slide falling off...
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Exactly HOW does a slide "fall off" of a semi-auto pistol? Unless you've pulled the slide stop / release lever out of a 1911, or rotated the slide release lever on a pistols like SIG, Glock, HK, etc. - a slide cannot come off of the frame.

Please explain...I'm interested in how the slide "fell off" of your semi-auto pistol...
 
txaz said:
A revolver will have fewer parts, therefore likely fewer (potential) defects, which can be directly correlated to a quality number, be it MTBF, average faults per shot or whatever metric you like.
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As Buckhorn pointed out, your statement is totally wrong.

For example, a typical S&W M66 double action revolver has over 50% MORE parts in it than a 1911 (69 vs 44), and over twice as many as a Glock (69 vs 34).

http://weaponsman.com/?p=8547
 

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What? I've put thousands of rounds through M&Ps, Berettas, and a Kimber .45. The number of times they've jammed or FTF I can count on my finger, and by that I mean I can't remember it ever occurring. I think the Kimber FTFd once on really really bad Russian ammo.
 
slide falling off, etc. etc...
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This is not only a very serious malfunction but also a dangerous one,no doubt you contacted the manufacturer about it and at the very least I guess the pistol
in question was replaced,it would be of general interest to know how that happened and how it was resolved.
All of these problems were when factory mags (in good condition) and factory ammo (FMJs mostly) were used.
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By using factory ammo you eliminate the possibility of reloading errors,this is prudent.
(I always examine primers for damage and proper seating, proper bullet seating depth and orientation, and structural integrity of the case).
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What kind of factory ammo you use that causes you to inspect it so thoroughly?
And could you please explain what "bullet orientation is?
 
Hey guys! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Regarding the slide falling off: It happened several times w. my g19. It happened without any obvious cause, totally randomly, during dry-firing or live-firing. The slide would simply move forward on the frame, and if I don't catch it quickly, the slide would fall on the floor. It happened as if a ghost pressed slide lock down. I've taken it to the gunsmith and called glock -- all were confused and bewildered. The problem couldn't be replicated on demand -- it would happen every 200 or 300 trigger presses, totally out of nowhere. The most obvious cause for this was a suspected slide lock spring malfunction/breakage. After examining it, it was in perfect shape and installed correctly. After doing some of my own research online, I've seen some discussion threads talking about this same issue -- but given the number of responses, it didn't seem like the issue was very prevalent. But it was a big enough concern for me that I switched from g19 to g29...

I like to examine ammo carefully because by doing so I eliminate this variable if gun malfunctions in the case of range ammo, and it has obvious life-saving benefits in the case of carry ammo. What has led me to do it is that over the years I've observed some weird flaws in ammo manufacturing control, especially with cheaper ammo like WWB. Sometimes, case would be literally deformed, like sombody jammed a knife on the rim of the casing. Sometimes, the rim would have dings. Sometimes a bullet would sit sideways. I've also heard of situations when two bullets would be in the same case (!) - one on top of another. Such quality-control issues do not happen often w. factory ammo, but they happen. By bullet orientation I meant that it sits straight, upright, and just looks normal. Although I had these quality-control issues w. cheaper ammo, nothing like that ever happened to my carry ammo (Speer Gold Dot, bonded 124 +p), but, for peace of mind, I examine every round of that ammo, anyway! :)

Thanks guys. Perhaps I'm unlucky. Or, perhaps I'm looking for real perfection! (Sorry, glock guys, just pokin a little fun at ya...:))
 
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I think we forget the bad from years ago and remember the good (just like we do with cars). I think guns are generally better today then they were back in "the good old days". The difference today is that the social media lets the world know when it was only known to a few people back then. I remember malfunctions of firearms were common back then. It was even reflected in the movies and TV shows. They would show the semi-automatic malfunction and the crook would throw the gun away and run. They almost never have those kind of things in the movies or TV now.

Also, many of today's malfunctions are on weapons that were not made or even invented back then. I think the most problem prone semi-automatics are the little micro guns (LCP, TCP, etc) that were only available recently. I like the variety we have now and the frequent lifetime warranties (as compared to no warranty on many in the "good old days".
 
The only thing the good ol' days had on today, was things like wood quality, some finish items, and a little workman's pride on the general priced firearms through to the expensive.

We look at those general priced firearms as being cheaper than they really were, due to inflation. A $200 rifle back then being more akin to a $1000 rifle now, for example.


You can still get that kind of detail oriented quality, but it will cost you.

Most places sacrifice a little fit and finish to help meet price point and profit goals.

Today we do have better metallurgy and closer tolerances with less hand fitting. Design is improved by computer aided design methods, allowing computer simulations and things to help refine designs to a fairly high degree before a prototype is even made. It cuts development and testing time.
 
I have a different perspective it surprises me how reliable some well maintained modern semi / auto handguns are. I can't remember the last time I had a stoppage with my CZ 75 SPO1.
 
Perhaps an average revolver is more likely to have a mechanical breakdown than the average semi-auto.

But you have to factor in ammo problems, magazine problems, limp-wristing, being nudged out of battery, etc.

The malfunctions being easy to clear in a semi-auto doesn't make me feel much better about it. If someone is trying to mug you, you will be lucky to have enough time to to clear the holster, point, and shoot. A malfunction of any kind in those circumstances would be life threatening.

Don't get me wrong, I carry a small semi-auto regularly. But I feel that a good revolver is slightly more likely to go bang every time.
 
I can't relate to the OP's question. At least with any center fire semi auto I've bought that was manufactured recently. Regardless of make or price. From Hi-Point to Ruger, S&W, Beretta, Glock, and others.
In particular those I count on most....for CCW.
 
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