Why aren't steel casings reloadable?

I find nothing entertaining about shooting steel cases, I want my cases to have imbed ability; reloaders claim there is nothing they can do to cut down on case travel, if that is true I want nothing between the case and chamber but air. And that brings me back to case imbed ability, if there is something between the case and chamber that is not air I want it to embed into the case.

I have steel cases, I have 45 ACP ammo that has brass cases and jacketed bullets, problem:eek: I can pick up the ammo with a magnet. I assume the bullets are not lead jacketed, I do not have enough curiosity to peal the jacket. When it comes to full boxes of ammo liker matching sets.

F. Guffey
 
Regarding that, I can confirm it. I was working with extremely low power loads in 30-06. A medium speed powder, about 30% comparable charge weights. At one point, I started getting a slight whiff of ammonia smell at the breech, and flakes of unburned powder were dropping into the chamber.

The case was not fully obturating and allowing gas to slip past, and unburned powder in the chamber was stamping a leopard spot pattern on the brass.
 
The case was not fully obturating and allowing gas to slip past, and unburned powder in the chamber was stamping a leopard spot pattern on the brass.
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When trying to get involved in a conversation that involves factors I find it a waste of time. anyhow, I do not want anything between the chamber and case when things get serious. When the case does expand the air between the case and chamber has to get out of the way fast, meaning what little air I have between the chamber and case gets out of the way in a hurry. Because I do not live in a sterile environment. Dirt, grit and grime leaving with the air can dull the shinny finish of my chamber, I would like to avoid that because I want 100% contact between the case and chamber; and I want to stop case travel.

Stop case travel; as described by reloaders the case is driven forward by the firing pin and then makes the return trip when fired. As always I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel.

F. Guffey
 
I've got to argue with you on the last point. Running obsolete and banged up battle tanks into the sea and scuttling a ship is waste disposal.
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Even after the war nothing changed; I made an effort to find one of the old Clippers, the last person I talked to said something like: "You mean the planes named the 'CHINA CLIPPER',. the 'AFRICAN CLIPPER' etc, like the ones I walked the wings when checking the radio antennas?" Anyhow; she was the radio operator on the AFRICAN CLIPPER. I did not think she was heavy enough to walk the wings on windy days and she did not appreciate the suggestion. (Long story). She said the planes were towed out to sea, the plugs were removed and then they disappeared.

I told her that was almost as sad as the story about all of the PT boats, the PT boats were run together and then set on fire. There was a story about the boats being worn out, when I heard that one I told them I was told it was termites.

F. Guffey
 
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Some of that stuff was in the end, junk. Mechanical parts on last legs, obsolete designs, useless for anything but battle. In a lot of cases, really, they weren't even worth towing off to reclaim the metal.

It's a great irony that kids were handling their toys, their bikes, anything that they could scrounge up over to the scrap drives, while over in the war zone, things were being cast aside since there was no point, and eventually, driven into the sea. the metal from my uncle's bicycle may, in fact, be sitting off of the beaches, rusting.

My wife and I sometimes discuss this, for example, when I seriously, really, cross my heart and hope to spit, saw a 1970s chevette going down the road. That thing should have been turned into a reef twenty years ago?
 
"It's a great irony that kids were handling their toys, their bikes, anything that they could scrounge up over to the scrap drives"

For the most part, the scrap drives of World War II didn't do much for the war effort.

Much of the metals that were turned in "to build tanks and aircraft" weren't the right composition to be useful for such items.

The exceptions were rubber and tin. Both were critical materials, and supplies of both had been largely cut off by the Japanese, so those items were crucial.

In fact, gasoline rationing wasn't about conserving fuel. It was about conserving rubber.

The real purpose of scrap drives was to foster a sense of unity among the American populace.
 
My wife and I sometimes discuss this,
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I could not have been older than 6 when the war ended, during the war I pulled a little red wagon to dump sights, somehow I would manage a can opener; I would cut the bottom of cans so they could be flattened. After loading the wagon I would pull the wagon to town to trade the metal cans for movie tickets.

Same for paper drives, I would clean out garages at motels for the paper. Poor? I remember one hot day the line at the movie emptied my wagon, no one had shoes so they had to stand on my paper.

On the way home I heard the army/navy store was giving away gas mask, what kid did not need a gas mask? so I got one, they placed it over my head and I took off. It did not occur to me I could have placed the canister in the wagon and I did not consider how annoying a kid can be while dragging the canister with all of that noise.

And then there was that day that made being me fun, it was one of those rare days I had the opportunity to ride the bus home from town. I was sitting one the curb waiting for the bus; and next to me was a big dog. A man walked up to where I was sitting and asked me if my dog bit, I said no. The man then reached down to pet the dog? Anyhow, the dog latched onto his hand. It had to hurt, the man was angry at me; he said to me; "I thought you said your dog does not bite?", it was about this time I explained to the man that dog was not my dog. It just seems to me he should have first determine if that was my dog.

F. Guffey
 
I think as handloader's we often do thing's we shouldn't in an effort to make some point of handloading easier or less expensive, myself included! I would not even shoot a steel case cartridge in any of my rifle's. If you figure out what a new factory case cost's over the life of the case, it don't get much less expensive than that. I don't shoot steel bullets either. In my opinion. and it is opinion, shooting steel bullet's through a steel barrel with the bullet being groove diameter is asking for trouble. Now I've never done that either so I could be wrong. But finding out I'm right in the first place could get very expensive. Only metal I'll shoot through my barrel's is metal I'm sure is softer than the barret!
 
Mike, it's amazing the things that come up here. You're right, the contractors would be producing steel by thousands of tons from ore, and a few hundred pounds from Clinton Ohio may have never even made it to the war. I know that scrap eventually works it's way through, but we're a real obstacle.

My sister in law threw away aluminum cans, but she kept the pull tabs. We are an incredibly wealthy nation. Kids scavenge for metals an battlezones.

Right now, GSA auctions has a batch of brass, used le brass, 3,750 pounds. They sell many lots that are much bigger. It's common for them to find a yard full of scrap, and auction off a few tons of scrap FOB where it stands. Sometimes it's just garbage, once in a while it's actually useful materials.

Generally,the auctions are useless. One lot they sold was a half pallet of batteries, used, non rechargeable, etc, listed under electronics, rather than scrap
 
I should say that a lot of the scrap collected during the drives didn't end up DIRECTLY contributing to the war in the shape of weapons and the like.

Most of the stuff very likely ended up going into items that were produced for the home front, where content composition wasn't critical.

Where a lot of that scrap iron collected from US sources likely ended up was as galvanized iron plumbing pipe.

A huge amount of domestic construction went on during the war, both for military bases and training facilities and also housing for war workers.

Since copper was one of the most critical war time materials, it couldn't be used in plumbing pipe, so there was a bit return to galvanized iron.
 
During the war there was a law (or at least a regulation) that banned SLICED BREAD.

The idea was to conserve supplies of the high grade steel used in the slicing machine's blades for more important wartime use. No idea if it actually "worked" (made any measurable or significant difference) or not, but after the war, things returned to normal.
 
That sounds like one of the token gestures.

My grandmother kept the first section of every wartime episode of the Omaha newspaper, and I read them all a few times.

One of the things that stood out most strongly was a photograph of a car that was left running without a driver. It was front page news, and the short article strongly suggested that the traitor be identified and turned in.

Those things were very interesting.

I just learned something new, my aunt and uncle both worked in the Pentagon, as did another two family members. He worked on codes, she worked in a lab that was working on gasoline substitutes, and died in an explosion. She was written up as a genuine hero.
 
One of the things that stood out most strongly was a photograph of a car that was left running without a driver. It was front page news, and the short article strongly suggested that the traitor be identified and turned in.
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I had friends that were creative when parking their car, there were time it was the starter, other times it was the battery. The solution for both problems is a hill with a standard transmission. Nebraska is not know for hills and parking in Council Bluffs IA is a little inconvenient.

F. Guffey
 
"During the war there was a law (or at least a regulation) that banned SLICED BREAD.

The idea was to conserve supplies of the high grade steel used in the slicing machine's blades for more important wartime use. No idea if it actually "worked" (made any measurable or significant difference) or not, but after the war, things returned to normal."

It didn't. It was widely reviled, and lasted about 2 months.

It was in part enacted in January 1943 to reduce the thickness of wrapping needed to keep sliced bread from going stale, not to conserve high grade steel in slicing blades.

Simply put, if a slicing machine went down during the war, unless the bakery could find pre-war produced parts, it wasn't going to be fixed until after the war ended.
 
My Grandfather, Dad's Dad, was a mechanical engineer and chief engineer at a plant that produced Rayon. He went for his draft notice physical in early January 1942 and by the time he had taken off his pants he was told to go back to his factory, he had been classified as an irreplaceable war industry worker.

His status allowed him to get pretty much unlimited gasoline, which he used to visit his parent's farm about 40 miles away once a month or so.

Great grandpa raised chickens, pigs, rabbits, and lots of vegetables, so he was able to bring back lots of food the family and a close circle of friends that made rationing a lot easier.
 
Steel cases are harder than you think. I bought a case of Russian 7.62x54R softpoint from an importer as soon as it came in. It was nothing more than steel, copper washed military ammo with a cheap soft point bullet in it. It was somewhere around 200 grain bullets. The rifle I had was a good one, and tight. There was such a burr on the rim that when you chambered a round it gouged the face of the rim area at the chamber. Now picture how much harder it will get after firing.
 
You sure can.
I have done a fair bit of it, Mostly 7.62x39.
One test batch of cases I reloaded them 15 times. But pretty much I just reload them once. For use at ranges were I can not save my brass.

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I have not done much of it lately though. I found good brass catchers. good to know for just in case.
As for the steel being harder than brass. Nope they are not. Steel cases are in their annealed state and are actually very soft. The main issue with steel that i have found. Is they dont bounce back like Brass. When you size a brass case it contracts in the die then expands when it comes out. Steel does not do that.They come out of the die smaller than a brass case so you have to account for that. Opposite is true when you fire one. They dont contract after firing. So 223's and any strait walled case may stick in the chamber. That is no fun at all.
Thats why I did 7.62x39 the case tapper prevents them from getting stuck.
At least i never had one stick any way.
 
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The only steel I ever reloaded because I had to was ammo for the 8x56R Mannlicher straight pull.

In the early 1990s when I was with American Rifleman a guy I worked with had one, and had managed to lay his hands on some ammo.

Surplus wasn't really coming into the country yet (it would in fairly large quantities in a couple of years) and there was nothing available that could be easily modified to make the case, so after we shot the original ammo, we reloaded.

It was a real bodge job.

Reloading dies weren't available at the time, so we made do with, IIRC, a set of 8x50R Lebel dies to neck size. That worked OK because the steel didn't expand like brass would.

The 8x56R has a non-standard bore, .329 as opposed to the more common .323, so the first few rounds showed keyholing.

We solved that by drilling a .329 hole into a steel block and using an arbor press to bump the bullets up to the correct size.

Those shot a LOT better.

It was a fun exercise, but way too labor intensive.
 
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