Why aren't steel casings reloadable?
- Thread starter MosinNOUGAT
- Start date
JeepHammer
Moderator
Mr. Morris, you are my hero! 
g.willikers
New member
Now, that's cool.
Does the rifling in the .45acp barrel cause problems?
Wait, don't tell us, you have a smooth barrel, don't you?
Should'a known.
Does the rifling in the .45acp barrel cause problems?
Wait, don't tell us, you have a smooth barrel, don't you?
Should'a known.
Stats Shooter
New member
OK Mr Morris. Just when I think I'm getting pretty fancy with some of the stuff I do, I see something like this and realize I still have much to learn.
Don Fischer
New member
As many brass case's as are around and relatively inexpensive to boot, why even consider messing with steel case's. I have heard of some guy's loading them, never gonna be one of them!
This is the thread on the 45 shotshells I make and results, video too.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544168&highlight=45+shotshell
With the .410 wad they are the best pistol shot load I have, much better than the Speer capsules.
This is the thread on the same concept but using .223 brass for .380 shotshells.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578944&highlight=45+shotshell
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544168&highlight=45+shotshell
With the .410 wad they are the best pistol shot load I have, much better than the Speer capsules.
This is the thread on the same concept but using .223 brass for .380 shotshells.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578944&highlight=45+shotshell
If they load just as easy, they aren't steel. They are Tula brass cases (they make those, too, in their Maxx line). But if you feel significant additional resistance on the press handle during resizing and a magnet attracts the cases, then they are steel and you stand a good chance of cracking your die and, with enough load cycles, getting the gas cut pits in your chamber the owner of the 1911 barrel below got as a result of reloading steel cases. Those pits continue like that all the way around the inside of the chamber.
I took two casings, one brass, one steel, and a tapered punch. Pressing really hard by hand and rotating the punch belled the case. With steel, I literally hammered on that punch and couldn't stretch that neck. These were both .223.
Steel cases are a single use item, just like an aluminum can. Plenty of people who are just too stubborn to adhere to accepted rules have managed to do it. I don't even care. That's like buying re-tread tires to save ten bucks.
Steel cases are a single use item, just like an aluminum can. Plenty of people who are just too stubborn to adhere to accepted rules have managed to do it. I don't even care. That's like buying re-tread tires to save ten bucks.
g.willikers
New member
Just about anything can be accomplished if it's being done by someone with the skills.
P.S.
I used to race cars on retreads when that's all I could afford and still eat.
They worked just fine; they were made by folks who knew how.
The same with reloading.
If steel cases were all we had, you can bet folks would figure out how to do it.
Maybe softening the cases with heat (annealing)?
P.S.
I used to race cars on retreads when that's all I could afford and still eat.
They worked just fine; they were made by folks who knew how.
The same with reloading.
If steel cases were all we had, you can bet folks would figure out how to do it.
Maybe softening the cases with heat (annealing)?
Millions of retreads are sold and used. They work. That doesn't mean that people should buy them just to save a tiny fraction of a cent per mile when they need the best possible products.
Back when I was first driving, glass belted bias ply tires c o st a fraction of the cost of steel radials, and gee,they blew out pretty regularly.
Back then you could get a lot of retreads, but for a very long time, they were mostly sold overseas.
A lot of commercial fleets used retreads. A lot of commercial fleets also filtered and reused the oil that they changed out. Back in the seventies, I even sold a whole lot of recycled oil.
Steel casings belong in the recycling. Thoreau said " nobody is so poor that they must sit on a pumpkin". Is anyone seriously in such dire conditions that reloading steel or aluminum is a practical solution?
Back when I was first driving, glass belted bias ply tires c o st a fraction of the cost of steel radials, and gee,they blew out pretty regularly.
Back then you could get a lot of retreads, but for a very long time, they were mostly sold overseas.
A lot of commercial fleets used retreads. A lot of commercial fleets also filtered and reused the oil that they changed out. Back in the seventies, I even sold a whole lot of recycled oil.
Steel casings belong in the recycling. Thoreau said " nobody is so poor that they must sit on a pumpkin". Is anyone seriously in such dire conditions that reloading steel or aluminum is a practical solution?
g.willikers
New member
Sometimes it's not about the cost, but the challenge.
Find a tire re-treader that does air craft tires. Many years ago I had a friend that was successful with his retreading business; and then one day; he took off from one air port and did not make it to the next airport. That was one day he wished he had been hauling tires.
F. Guffey
EC 42? (typo??)
I loaded some EC 43 cases back in the 70s. I was a stupid kid, new to reloading and didn't know any better. Lyman steel die. Essentially wrecked it, though I didn't realize it at the time and kept using it for some time, and had trouble with my reloads. When I got a new die, those troubles went away.
I remember, also that the primer pockets of the EC 43 cases were a bit too small for LP primers. Being a kid, I smashed them in anyway. Somehow, none detonated (SLOW squeeze seldom sets off a primer) and they did all fire in the gun, but I never reloaded them again.
It's quite "doable", but I don't think its worthwhile. I make .357AMP & .44AMP cases out of .308 brass, because for years there was no other option. And there's still no commercially made .357AMP brass and .44AMP brass is currently "waiting on sufficient orders" to produce another run (Starline).
As long as they share the same head size, you can make ANY shorter case out of a longer one. All that differs is how many steps it takes. Some require multiple forming dies and reamers, some don't. For example, making 7.7mm Jap brass from .30-06 is a simple matter, making .22-250 (or .45acp) from .30-06 is a much more complex multi step operation, but it can be done with the right tools.
I ran recap tires for many years, my daily commute was nearly 100miles. Had my share of blowouts and tread coming off. Then I ponied up and bought some new quality tires. They lasted 3-4x longer than the recaps. Actually turned out to be CHEAPER buying new, in the long run.
Steel cases can physically be reloaded, (IF you can get the correct primers)BUT regular commercial reloading equipment is not intended for that, can be damaged by doing it, and the cases themselves are inferior to brass in several ways. If you shoot steel cases (I don't) shoot the loaded ammo, then send the fired cases to the scrap metal recycler.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"EC 42? (typo??)"
No, likely NOT a typo.
Small amounts of EC 42 headstamped steel .45 ACP ammo was released in the last couple of months of 1942, with most production being in 1943.
Production of steel cased .45 ACP ammo also continued into early 1944, but overall orders for both brass and steel cased ammo were reduced significantly (and steel eliminated) due to .45 not being used in combat to levels that were originally anticipated.
A large part of that reduction was apparently the widespread adoption of the M1 Carbine.
No, likely NOT a typo.
Small amounts of EC 42 headstamped steel .45 ACP ammo was released in the last couple of months of 1942, with most production being in 1943.
Production of steel cased .45 ACP ammo also continued into early 1944, but overall orders for both brass and steel cased ammo were reduced significantly (and steel eliminated) due to .45 not being used in combat to levels that were originally anticipated.
A large part of that reduction was apparently the widespread adoption of the M1 Carbine.
In the big inning EC identified cases made in Eau Clair, Wisconsin. and then there was one of those 'and then' moments. South and east of Wisconsin was a town called Evansville, Indiana. In Evenaville there was a company named Chrysler, Chrysler had a tantrum because they thought they were entitled; they wanted the EC head stamp. They also want the Sunbeam head stamp; so? The Wisconsin plant lost out and then became EW. And then there was TW, TW was not in Wisconsin, it was in Minnesota.
F. Guffey
Mike Irwin
Staff
"In the big inning EC identified cases made in Eau Clair, Wisconsin."
Uhm... no.
Chrysler was approached about manufacturing .45 ACP ammunition in early December 1941. It was assigned the EC plant/headstamp designation for the Evansville Plymouth plant in January or February 1942, and began delivering loaded ammunition to the military in June 1942 with the EC headstamp.
The United States Rubber Corp. was first approached about manufacturing .30-06 ammunition at their main Eau Claire, Wisc., plant in January or early February 1942, and was assigned the EW plant/headstamp designation after that.
The Eau Claire Ordnance Plant, as it was called, began delivering ammunition to the military in August 1942 and ceased operations at the end of December 1943.
Chrysler corp. never had any sort of tantrum over the headstamp, because there was no tantrum to be had. They were assigned EC first, and kept it.
Uhm... no.
Chrysler was approached about manufacturing .45 ACP ammunition in early December 1941. It was assigned the EC plant/headstamp designation for the Evansville Plymouth plant in January or February 1942, and began delivering loaded ammunition to the military in June 1942 with the EC headstamp.
The United States Rubber Corp. was first approached about manufacturing .30-06 ammunition at their main Eau Claire, Wisc., plant in January or early February 1942, and was assigned the EW plant/headstamp designation after that.
The Eau Claire Ordnance Plant, as it was called, began delivering ammunition to the military in August 1942 and ceased operations at the end of December 1943.
Chrysler corp. never had any sort of tantrum over the headstamp, because there was no tantrum to be had. They were assigned EC first, and kept it.
silvermane_1
New member
^actually that's how 44amp/357amp/41amp was originally made, and you could probably do the same for 45 win mag/45 super/38 casull in a pinch.