After reading this thread over and thinking about it some more, I'm convinced that pump rifles are not really underrepresented in hunting, but ARE underrepresented in self-defense rifles. We talked about the Rem 7615p above, and it's a bit surprising to me that these aren't more popular for the self-defense crowd. I don't care how good or perfectly tuned your AR/AK/FAL/M14/SKS/VZ58/PTR91/CETME is, it is still, on average, less reliable than a pump. It's still going to have on average, more jams per 5K rounds than a pump. And reliability is THE primary concern for a self-defense rifle. And being just almost as fast, it's seems that an argument could be made that they're preferable to a semi-auto for most instances of actual real civilian self-defense. No, they won't have the accuracy of the AR15 in all likelihood, which is undoubtedly why they're not popular for this use, but they'll be more reliable than even the best clean & lubed AR15. And frankly, actual real self-defense encounters by definition happen at very short ranges where accuracy isn't needed, because well, if you could run rather than shoot, it typically is not valid self-defense. Pumps CAN jam of course, like any weapon. But the average pump is going to have fewer jams than the best semi for every 5K or 10K rounds, even if only a few fewer.
But the reality is that even though this "self defense crowd" or market, which includes me, is very large, the actual instances of self-defense are relatively small (though bigger than the antis would have you believe), and moreover, 1 shot or NO shots is usually all that's needed to resolve the situation, so you don't hear about semi-auto jams leading to death mayhem and destruction from criminals... because it doesn't. The accuracy and ergonomics win the day (and the extra speed & "fun factor" - though arguably a pump is as fun or more fun than a semi - personal preference)... thus everyone loves them some ARs, myself included. But as I mentioned above, this thread has me thinking about a Rem 7615P, and if I could get one in 6.8 SPC, I'd jump on it like a duck on a june bug.
I'm not sure if it would be more fair to say: For typical non-WROL self-defense, a semi trumps a pump, but for WROL, a pump trumps a semi. Or the other way around - more valid and realistic to say: For typical non-WROL self-defense, a pump trumps a semi, but for WROL, a semi trumps a pump. I mean, in WROL, you're shooting MORE, which puts a premium on reliability. But you're also potentially shooting longer distances, if your goal is to eradicate and demoralize an occupying force with guerrilla attacks & assassinations, so that puts a premium on accuracy. So it cuts both ways. (of course, not all WROL scenarios involve an occupying force, so standard self-defense ranges will still be the norm in many potential WROL situations, where accuracy would still not be at a premium).
As for fun at the range, obviously the more accurate the better, and that favors ARs (over allegedly-inaccurate pump rifles - but is this really true?).
I guess in the end it comes down to gritty conditions or lack thereof and cleaning/maintenance level that you undertake. If you don't like to ever clean your guns, and/or live in a dust storm area like Iraq, a pump is gonna be preferred over a semi for self-defense. But in wetter climes and a regular cleaning regiment, a semi would trump a pump.
Now, when or if WROL really did/does happen, the reality is this: No matter how busy you are or think you are now, you'd be a lot busier than you are now, every second of every day if the S hit the F - everything you do would be about survival, and without modern energy and conveniences, every minute of the day would be taken up with tasks related to basic survival needs of you and family/friends. In that scenario, one of the last things on earth you'd want to mess with is cleaning your self-defense weapon. There's just ain't nobody that got time for that. You would of course, if absolutely necessary, but not unless and until absolutely necessary to make it run. That bodes in favor of pumps for WROL potentially, vs. semis for everyday normal self-defense. Agree or not?
P.S. I understand that many don't think WROL is in the realm of possibilities - I do hope you're right.. You may of course ignore my question in that event.
