Why are there no integrally suppressed centerfire pistols?

James K....you used the word "rare". If you hadn't been staff, I would wonder about you. I've been going to the same outdoor range for years and have NEVER had a visit without at least one person there with a silencer.

I can't recall seeing one on a gun at a range. Normally at a range everyone else would be shooting non suppressed guns so you'd be wearing hearing protection anyway. Unless, of course, one were just sighting it in.

I know a fella who has one and takes it rabbit hunting. Another man I know built one specifically for hunting jack rabbits illegally on public land.

Unless you get paid to assassinate folks I wonder what the point is. Just for the fun of it? Poaching rabbits?

What is it for?

How long would the suppressor on such a piece last? Like the SilencerCo piece. Would it last 10,000 rounds? 5,000? Then what?

tipoc
 
I have no experience with cans.

So here is a 2 part question which, if true, may answer the OP. It's my understanding (albeit maybe incorrect) that suppressing a weapon reduces velocity and accuracy. Anyone know for sure?

I suspect if the laws were relaxed regarding cans, we'd see vast innovation and improvements in design and production and costs.
 
tipoc said:
Unless you get paid to assassinate folks I wonder what the point is. Just for the fun of it? Poaching rabbits?
Seriously? This again? Instead of typing out a response yet again, I'll just cut-and-paste from my "common silencer myth" sticky at the top of the NFA forum:

(8) Only criminals and assassins need silencers.
Outside of Hollywood, you don't hear of criminals using silencers very often. But, more importantly, there are so many practical uses for a suppressor:

-Hearing protection. There are a lot of situations where wearing hearing protection is impractical (hunting, for example). Or, where the firearm is loud enough that even with hearing protection there can still be hearing loss (like shooting a rifle at an indoor range). Silencers protect people's hearing.

-Training. Silencers reduce recoil and greatly reduce muzzle blast and sound. They're perfect for introducing newer shooters to shooting.

-Noise pollution. How many outdoor ranges around the country are constantly under the threat of shutdown because residential neighbors can't stand the sound? Or out in rural areas where people shoot on their own property and disturb the neighbors? Silencers greatly reduce noise pollution.

-And most importantly, they're just plain fun!
 
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tipoc said:
How long would the suppressor on such a piece last? Like the SilencerCo piece. Would it last 10,000 rounds? 5,000? Then what?
It depends which type of silencer you're talking about. Most rimfire and centerfire pistol silencers will last your entire lifetime and more. And most centerfire rifle silencers will last multiple tens of thousands of rounds; usually you'll shoot several barrels out well before you shoot your silencer out.
 
leadcounsel said:
It's my understanding (albeit maybe incorrect) that suppressing a weapon reduces velocity and accuracy. Anyone know for sure?
Again, this is yet another common silencer myth that I addressed almost two years ago in the sticky post at the top of the NFA forum page.

(3) Silencers slow the bullet down.
Some older silencer designs used steel wool, leather, or some other material that the bullet passed through. Or the suppressor was built around a barrel that had holes drilled in it to slow the bullet's acceleration and start the suppression process. These designs often negatively affected the bullet's velocity and accuracy. Now, most silencers are detachable and have baffles that never come into contact with the bullet. With most modern suppressors, accuracy is often increased and bullet velocity can be boosted a tiny amount due to the pressure waves inside the silencer.
 
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wow.....only can benefit if your a criminal.....that means that if criminals can benefit from them, they must be the only ones who shoot guns at people ever. If you can't see a benefit to your bedside pistol having an unobtrusive suppressor that won't blow your families ears out if you ever had to use it in self-defense, then I don't know. I guess for you, there's no benefit. If you apply ear-pro as you draw your CC from concealment in one swift action when out on the street, then you need to teach us how. How about by-standers at a convenience store if your the guy that can put a stop to a violent robbery, you carry enough muffs on your belt for everyone?

I have shot suppressed .22's and didn't notice a blatant reduction in accuracy, maybe if it was rested down it would show it, but the added weight actually made a more stable shooter for me, albeit a bit unbalanced with a sparrow on a very light rifle. I was shooting within ten yards with a suppressed .45 and under 20 with a 300blk, so maybe it did decrease accuracy, I wouldn't have know since I was unfamiliar with those guns to begin with and at short distances.. Hunters can benefit greatly from suppression, although it prudent to always wear hearing protection and that's multiplied when shooting a hunting rifle, we have to be real and understand that sometimes a hunter is going to get that opportunistic shot that makes for application of earPro disadvantageous. A built-in suppressor on a CC gun that doesn't add length, absolutely I want one, I don't have time to put on my muffs/plugs that I keep in my fanny pack everywhere I go, and what if you needed to shoot from inside your car, although still potentially damaging even with a suppressor, surely suppression is going to be plus. well you say "if I am going to shoot someone, the last thing I care about is possible ear-damage after an SD event", and I agree, but if it's built into the gun and offers no dis-advantages other than maybe slightly increased weight, then why not have every possible tool you can have that gives you even a slight advantage to the health of your ear-drums? it doesn't hurt to have it, as long as it's more reliable than the little video they show. I also hear all the time that you still need hearing protection even with a silencer, and although I haven't shot very many, any pistol caliber at sub-sonic speeds I have shot were uber quiet, and although it may not pass the CDC test for damaging sound levels, I think from the shooters end it seems very quiet and I couldn't imagine it hurting my hearing from a few sporadic shots, especially in something like a well-built piston 300blk subS when the loudest thing was the action slamming back. but if you don't see the advantages, then don't buy it, but don't say that the ONLY reason could be to assassinate people, shadow-ninja style, not giving up your location, that's just foolishness. Anyhow, everyone knows that ninja assassins, being so many mercs for hire these days, have their own silencer manufacturing plants deep in the hills of Kentucky that make silencers that just go "phew phew phew". We have yet to get to their level of technology, so they don't care about our open-market suppressors.
 
leadcounsel said:
I suspect if the laws were relaxed regarding cans, we'd see vast innovation and improvements in design and production and costs.
I doubt we'd see any improvement in anything other than cost. In fact, the only good side of our strict laws is they help push innovation and give us really high-end products as a result.

In many places in the world, silencers are an over-the-counter item. Because of this, they're often relatively cheap. And because they're cheap and easy to buy, people usually aren't as worried about having the latest and greatest model that will last as long as possible. After all, buying another one is cheap and quick.

But here in the US, silencers are expensive and take a lot longer to get, thanks to our laws. And they're very hard to sell once you have one, so most of the time they're considered lifetime purchases. And because of this, people often want the latest and greatest designs that are as quiet as possible, as versatile as possible, and as durable as possible. And the silencer manufacturers listen to that and are making their cans accordingly.

Silencer innovation in the US has been skyrocketing over the last decade or so as more and more people are learning how to go about buying one. And as long as the NFA is in place -- making silencers more expensive, harder to get, and almost impossible to sell without taking a huge hit -- customers will continue to pay extra for silencers that are as quiet as possible and made with high-quality materiels with the latest design features, and silencer companies will continue to devote a large amount of R&D to meeting that demand.
 
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Speak of the devil silencerco just announced this
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...o-maxim-9-integrally-suppressed-pistol-video/
http://youtu.be/gfnnrmeliGA

Maxim-9-beach-660x377.jpg
 
wow.....only can benefit if your a criminal.....that means that if criminals can benefit from them, they must be the only ones who shoot guns at people ever. If you can't see a benefit to your bedside pistol having an unobtrusive suppressor that won't blow your families ears out if you ever had to use it in self-defense, then I don't know. I guess for you, there's no benefit. If you apply ear-pro as you draw your CC from concealment in one swift action when out on the street, then you need to teach us how. How about by-standers at a convenience store if your the guy that can put a stop to a violent robbery, you carry enough muffs on your belt for everyone?

No I don't see the benefit of having a 1 pound 6 inch tube hanging off the end of my bedside home defense weapon. Even a gunshot in a small room in my home won't "blow my families ears out" to the extent that I need a $1,000. M&P with an extra pound of weight to it.

No I don't see myself, or anyone else, for that matter, "in one swift action" drawing a piece with a a 4" barrel and 5" suppressor.

As I said earlier, the main point of it seems to be fun. Integral or not. You don't need anything more than that as a good reason to get one.

No I did not say that only "criminals" use them. I referred specifically to assassinations. Plenty of fellas running around internationally who get paid to assassinate folks and it's quite legal. Hunting rabbits is mostly not illegal either. I've never heard of one used in a common street crime or incident most think of as "common crime".

So when I asked...other than fun and hunting rabbits quietly what's the point? I was looking for an answer and knee jerk not yack. Thanks to Theo for providing some of that.

I don't see the point...but others do so I bow out.

tipoc
 
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No I don't see the benefit of having a 1 pound 6 inch tube hanging off the end of my bedside home defense weapon. Even a gunshot in a small room in my home won't "blow my families ears out" to the extent that I need a $1,000. M&P with an extra pound of weight to it.



Not to be rude, and with all due respect.... bull snit!

You obviously have never shot a 9, 40 or 45 in an interior room without hearing protection. I have well less than 30% remaining hearing, one shot.

A suppressor is expensive, but only 10-15% the lifetime cost of hearing loss. But feel free to prove me wrong, go ahead and crack off a few rounds in a 12x12 sheetrock room.:rolleyes:
 
High Standard.

High Standard target guns are not suppressed. Their barrel length does not make the ammunition "sub sonic". High Standard reccamends "target velocity" .22 ammunition.
 
Tipoc said:
Even a gunshot in a small room in my home won't "blow my families ears out" to the extent that I need a $1,000. M&P with an extra pound of weight to it.

I think you misunderstand or underestimate the likelihood of damage when shooting a gun indoors or in a closed space.

A gunshot in a small room COULD permanently damage your ears or the ears of others in your family. And if your ears have already started the decline of age, there's going to be a noticeable effect, or a long, aggravating bout of tinnitus that may NOT ever go away.

And this assumes you shoot only one round, and that someone else isn't shooting, too.

A silencer isn't the best solution to THAT potential problem. I keep a relatively inexpensive part of electronic ear protection (and a pair for my wife) in the bedroom, near my small gun safe which is bolted to the floor (and open at night, but closed when I get up in the morning); when I grab the gun I grab the ear gear. These offer the added benefit of magnifying sounds until you fire.
 
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Smoke Jensen said:
High Standard target guns are not suppressed.
Some were. The OP was referring to the integrally-suppressed Hi-Standard .22s used by the OSS during WWII and then by the CIA after the war. Supposedly Gary Powers had one when his U2 was shot down over the Soviet Union in 1960:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/usa/hi-standard-hdm-silenced-e.html

Smoke Jensen said:
Their barrel length does not make the ammunition "sub sonic".
Yes it does; most .22 ammo will be subsonic in a pistol, even high-velocity 40 gr. ammo like CCI Mini-Mag. I shoot Mini-Mag out of a suppressed 4" Mk III all the time and the ammo is always subsonic. It takes either hyper-velocity .22 ammo or a fairly long pistol barrel for .22 ammo to be supersonic in a pistol.

Here's a .22 velocity vs. barrel length comparison from BBTI (keep in mind that the speed of sound is 1,117 FPS at sea level):

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

And BBTI is using a single-shot T/C Encore pistol in that comparison; out of a blowback semi-auto .22 pistol the velocity should be lower.
 
In the US, firearms are generally very easy to own, while suppressors are difficult and expensive to own. Because of this, it's a decided benefit to be able to transfer a suppressor from one firearm to another. Suppressor enthusiasts often buy firearms as suppressor hosts instead of vice versa.

The other thing is that suppressors work well enough on conventional firearms that integrally suppressed firearms aren't worthwhile.
 
This thread reminds me of the first few Ruger LCR threads.

People saying it won't work have just gotten so used to ignoring the problems they think they don't exist.

A suppressed gun probably does cause hearing damage with every shot. That being said, I have heard them shot once or twice and I guarantee you the damage is FR less than an un-suppressed firearm.
 
DID Anyone consider this : ALLMOST all centerfire pistols are recoil operated and a suppressor is the finest of recoil brakes. There is NOTHING left to operate the pistol.
THINK !!
And so it goes...
 
Originally Posted by Tipoc
Even a gunshot in a small room in my home won't "blow my families ears out" to the extent that I need a $1,000. M&P with an extra pound of weight to it.

With all the States that allow suppressor use, it only makes sense that many people that own them want to be able to protect their hearing if they can in a home defense situation. The added length isn't ideal and the cost for some is certainly an issue.

With the dramatic increase in suppressor ownership, I am not surprised to see something like the Silencerco Maxim coming to the market. If people want them you will see plenty more available and my guess they will be marketed for home defense as much as recreational.

Currently, there is only one handgun safe available that is designed for the existing suppressor market. It came out of customer requests to secure their suppressed handgun for home defense, mainly due to having toddlers in the home. With this new integrated design, they will fit in smaller quick access safes. More options is always good for the consumer.

FAS1-SBD%2BSigAAC.jpg
 
Wil Terry said:
DID Anyone consider this : ALLMOST all centerfire pistols are recoil operated and a suppressor is the finest of recoil brakes. There is NOTHING left to operate the pistol.
THINK !!
And so it goes...

I hope you're joking.

In a semi-auto, the gas pressure that drives the bullet forward and the barrel and slide to the rear has no great effect on the gun after the gas has left the barrel. Porting or using a suppressor can redirect some of that gas, to offset muzzle rise or reduce the noise of the process -- but that gas isn't really managed until after or while that gas is leaving the barrel.

At that point in the firing cycle the barrel and slide of a locked-breech semi-auto is already moving to the rear with great force. What's stuck on the end of the barrel (that doesn't block it) isn't going to greatly affect what follows.

Here's a YouTube video that shows a Beretta M9 1) fired without silencer, 2) fired with a with silencer, and finally 3) fired with with silencer and slide locked, making it a very QUIET single-shot. The gun functions in all three modes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShbLWQeZkzc

.
 
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DID Anyone consider this : ALLMOST all centerfire pistols are recoil operated and a suppressor is the finest of recoil brakes. There is NOTHING left to operate the pistol.
THINK !!
And so it goes...

Ummm... All 5 of my host pistols run fine with either of my 2 pistol cans.
 
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