Why are red dot optics not standard from the OEM?

turkeestalker said:
It was sarcasm and I apologize.
Don't take my old and grumpy demeanor too seriously, and a sincere welcome to the forum.

I'm not meaning to bust your chops here and I do understand your perspective but I believe it's flawed.

What you posted about iron sights not being very precise is wrong, they're simply much harder to master as they require considerably more skill.
That means more patience, determination, and a whole lot more practice.

Red dots are a mechanical device that will without question fail, and that will typically happen at the MOST inopportune moment.
That I would call a serious handicap if you aren't able to function effectively without it.

Go back to what I said about imagining your shooting with a red dot once you've reduced your groups by half with the irons first.
There aren't any quick roads, but even if there were do you really want to take one?
Click to expand...
Thank you for the welcome. Much appreciated. And honestly, I enjoyed the sarcasm.

Your post suggests a fundamental question to me. You question the reliability of red dots. Fair enough. But do you think a red dot will fail as regularly as even a very reliable semi-automatic pistol. Every review of a new autoloading pistol mentions how reliable it is or isn’t. The reviewer knows the device is quite likely imperfect in that respect and the clientele needs to be reassured.

But have you ever seen a red dot review in which the reviewer mentions that the optic didn’t fail, the battery didn’t die, etc.? I haven’t, and I think that is because the likelihood of that happening is vanishingly small.

So do folks who carry an autoading pistol really need to worry about a red dot failing. I think not.

And I should mention that I can shoot with open sights pretty well. Just not spectacularly.
 
I have to admit that I'm not one to spend a lot on a red dot optic and I've never had one that I own fail... yet.
I do believe that you're overly optimistic about battery life in my experience, but that may be my fault for not spending half again the cost of the firearm on one.

But do you think a red dot will fail as regularly as even a very reliable semi-automatic pistol.
Click to expand...

I'm the stubborn old dinosaur that carries a revolver religiously even though I have a couple dozen semi-automatics to choose for carry.

Being that stubborn old dinosaur, I can't even comprehend attempting to conceal carry any hand gun with a red dot attached.

A laser maybe, but not a red dot.
Lasers IMO are another can of worms...
They are a fun toy and can be a useful tool, but should never be the sighting means of choice (dependence) for a conceal carry weapon.
I've personally witnessed the result of that dependence in its absence with more than one shooter and it's debilitating for them.
That would hold true for a red dot if you could successfully manage one on a carry weapon.

That may be where you and I have a disconnect on this.
Mine is a perspective of carrying for personal protection, but I'm not sure if you're carrying with a red dot or simply using one as a range toy.

POI doesn't have to be spectacular, just consistently repeatable and if you shoot pretty well with irons then I don't understand why you would put a red dot on a carry weapon if that is in fact what you're doing.

I can completely understand why manufacturers wouldn't pigeon hole purchasers by doing so for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread.
 
And as I said somewhere recently, my LC9s with Burris Fastfire III is smaller than many pistols alone that are commonly carried.
 
Last edited:
Good talk but I'll just fall back to what I said at the end of my first post:

IF there were ever actually a battle between iron sights and red dots, I know where I'd put my money.
Click to expand...

... and my faith.
Like Onward Allusion said... KISS.
 
For the range

I very much enjoy having a red dot on a gun for plinking and or punching paper. Heck I enjoy scoped handguns as well, on the range or in the woods.

I stopped by my favorite fun store yesterday, I have had a strong desire for a smaller and lighter CC piece.
The fun store had a very slightly used LCP with the installed laser. I will wring it out on the range over the weekend. My bride fell in love with the tiny little thing. Guess that's cuz she is a tiny thing as well. She immediately said she wanted one.
I said honey, I will gladly buy you one of your own, this one is mine. However comma let's see how you feel after a range session. I promise you the recoil will be an issue, it's a lot of power for the size of the package.

I rather doubt that she will want an LCP after a few rounds downrange. I'll bring some lighter recoiling guns too.

So I have joined the LCP crowd. I mention the laser because it does not impact the size of the pistol for CC. Use of laser not required for aimed fire.

It's also really easy to turn the laser on as the button falls where your finger should be when not actually firing it. I like it a lot so far.

A red dot must be turned on and typically must use your off hand to turn on the switch or knob. In addition aimed fire is not on the menu with a red dot mounted unless it is turned on. I see that as an issue.

For me a red dot on a pistol is a range only proposition. We see a lot of lasers on pistols available from the factory pre-installed. In virtually every case the laser does not impact the conceal-ability nor the ability to use the iron sights. In virtually every case a red dot makes the pistol bigger for CC and blocks or replaces the iron sights.

The laser gives me great flexibility, the red dot does not. Why would one handicap themselves?
I am NOT an expert on concealed carry, however flexibility is always a good thing.

There is a small town on Lake Michigan named Ludington. I recall learning about Luddites in college world history. Yes Luddites were the inspiration for the town name.
 
A red dot must be turned on and typically must use your off hand to turn on the switch or knob.
Click to expand...


Ahhh NO. Both my RMR’s (one on a G19, the other on a M&P) are always on. Trijicon advertises a two YEAR battery life. I change mine once a year.
 
Also there are choices of mounting plates that preserve open sight co-witnessing. Many of the complaints here are the product of misinformation.
 
Whether or not some of the complaints are products of misinformation, the original question was why gun manufacturers don't include red dot optics as standard on new handguns. It should by now be abundantly clear that the reason is that the buyers don't want red dot optics ... at least, not a large enough percentage of the new gun market for it to be worth the manufacturers' time, effort and expense to make red dot optics standard.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Whether or not some of the complaints are products of misinformation, the original question was why gun manufacturers don't include red dot optics as standard on new handguns. It should by now be abundantly clear that the reason is that the buyers don't want red dot optics ... at least, not a large enough percentage of the new gun market for it to be worth the manufacturers' time, effort and expense to make red dot optics standard.
Click to expand...
Yep. You’ve got a point there. But we will see how that goes.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Whether or not some of the complaints are products of misinformation, the original question was why gun manufacturers don't include red dot optics as standard on new handguns. It should by now be abundantly clear that the reason is that the buyers don't want red dot optics ... at least, not a large enough percentage of the new gun market for it to be worth the manufacturers' time, effort and expense to make red dot optics standard.
Click to expand...


As it sits now...

Keep in mind that CBP, which is the largest Federal law enforcement agency in the US, just put in a request for new 9mm striker-fired pistols. One of the requirements was that the slide is cut to be optics ready (mentioned the RMR and Delta Point, specifically to be the minimum for compatibility).

With all the private movements towards red dots on pistols (many instructors are recommending them), and a change on that large of a scale, I think the standardization on optics ready pistols will come very quick after the new CBP pistol is issued to the entire agency... probably 2022ish. Old shooters or not, you will see more of them on the line than you currently do.

I have been tossing around a optics ready pistol... but just unsure on what platform I want to go with. Probably will be a P320, as I can easily change the size and slide, whether I like the red dot or not. Not stuck with a slide length or frame size, like if I got a Glock MOS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top