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Why all the shootings?
- Thread starter ZeSpectre
- Start date
I'd say one very large reason why you're getting all of the school shooting in public schools is in a very large part due to the fact that only about 10% of children are taught in private schools. These children are then selection-biased to come from better homes and families as they cost money on top of the taxes that pay for public schooling, and this selection bias is more concretely evidenced by a roughly 50% higher rate of college attendance in privately-schooled children versus publicly-schooled.
I would really doubt that most families these mass-shooters come from could be counted as "attentive" as far as noticing their family member's growing disaffection. Do you seriously think that a child whose family is willing to spend thousands of dollars a year on their education when you could spend nothing is going to pay little to no attention to that child?
No, the lack of private school shootings is not evidence that removing God from public schools is responsible for school shootings. Try again.
I would really doubt that most families these mass-shooters come from could be counted as "attentive" as far as noticing their family member's growing disaffection. Do you seriously think that a child whose family is willing to spend thousands of dollars a year on their education when you could spend nothing is going to pay little to no attention to that child?
No, the lack of private school shootings is not evidence that removing God from public schools is responsible for school shootings. Try again.
CDFT wrote,
I've stated my opinion, but please tell me this. What consequences might we expect to find by removing God from our public schools? Do you have an opinion?
No, the lack of private school shootings is not evidence that removing God from public schools is responsible for school shootings. Try again.
I've stated my opinion, but please tell me this. What consequences might we expect to find by removing God from our public schools? Do you have an opinion?
I am of the opinion that there would, all else being equal, be no difference at all. Besides, religion isn't even totally blacklisted from schools; not in Texas anyway. If the child is receiving proper religious instruction at home, he doesn't need to get the message at school.
It's a complicated issue and I freely admit that I don't wholly understand it. Media coverage likely contributes to it, but when somebody just goes to lash out by killing random victims, there's going to be a whole host of problems at work there, and any system of ethics can be perverted by the stressors playing havoc on a sick person's mind.
Innoculation (in this analogy, any education prior to the introduction of the stressors leading to the violent event) won't generally work (though there are probably many individuals resilient enough); treatment of the disease, recognizing and helping those who are suffering, is all that will work consistently.
It's a complicated issue and I freely admit that I don't wholly understand it. Media coverage likely contributes to it, but when somebody just goes to lash out by killing random victims, there's going to be a whole host of problems at work there, and any system of ethics can be perverted by the stressors playing havoc on a sick person's mind.
Innoculation (in this analogy, any education prior to the introduction of the stressors leading to the violent event) won't generally work (though there are probably many individuals resilient enough); treatment of the disease, recognizing and helping those who are suffering, is all that will work consistently.
Wildalaska
Moderator
What consequences might we expect to find by removing God from our public schools?
none. God belongs in church (or it's equivalent) or the home, not in school.
School is for reading, writing, and rithmatic and they can't even get that right. I wouldnt expect them to be able to handle the nuances of the debate between Athanasius and Arius.
Besides, whose God are you going to have in school? I sure as hell don't want it to be yours, and I bet ya pitch a hissy when your kids come home with yarmulkas.
WildhaveyouhuggedyourS&WSchoefieldtodayAlaska ™
Wildalaska
Moderator
I believe the preceding makes my point for me. Thanks.
perhaps you should enlighten those of us who arent quite as knowledgable
WildhaveyouhuggedyourConehammertodayAlaska ™
Hmmm, what could cause a seemingly normal, well-adjusted, and educated individual to metamorphose into a violent psychopath? The question may never be answered. However, maybe we can peer into this man’s mind by placing ourselves into his mindset, or into the mindset of most mass killers. When we do so, we find that these perpetrators possess the following emotions: anger, hatred, frustration, loneliness, etc…
Now who doesn’t feel any of those emotions from time to time. We would not be human if we did not. However, what could be the end result when a person feels such emotions on a continuous basis? The end result = depression.
Now how does one deal with depression. Here are a compendium of common responses:
1) Psychological therapy and medication (assuming that the afflicted recognize that there is a problem)
2) Excessive sleep
3) Compulsive eating or starvation
4) Excessive crying
5) Obsessive-compulsive activities
6) Narcotics and/or alcohol
7) Suicide and/or suicide attempts
8) Homicide (our favorite and certainly the media’s favorite)
I`m not pretending to list all the responses and if anyone wishes to add to the list, be my guest. Here we are trying to come up with possible causes and solutions to the enigma of the mass-murderer, which, inevitably, leads to a series of scapegoats [guns, religion, parents, teachers, bullies, politicians, TV, video games, the media, Marilyn Manson, sex (or lack there of), pornography, drug companies, free will, etc…] . Yet we fail to grasp the very essence of human suffering. We, as human beings, are not all equal, physiologically, mentally, or emotionally. We have been given specific genetic trait’s that distinguish us from the 6,500,000,000 plus humans in the world. On that note, how can we not assume that some people are predisposed to deal with certain emotions in a different manner than the rest of us. Maybe our emotional responses are determined by our genetic makeup, just like our physiology and mental capabilities. Our environment provides the action, our genetics dictate the reaction.
“Every man has his breaking point” is a phrase we know very well. Maybe for some people, the onset of anger, hatred, frustration, loneliness, etc…is a catalyst for self-destruction.
Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
Now who doesn’t feel any of those emotions from time to time. We would not be human if we did not. However, what could be the end result when a person feels such emotions on a continuous basis? The end result = depression.
Now how does one deal with depression. Here are a compendium of common responses:
1) Psychological therapy and medication (assuming that the afflicted recognize that there is a problem)
2) Excessive sleep
3) Compulsive eating or starvation
4) Excessive crying
5) Obsessive-compulsive activities
6) Narcotics and/or alcohol
7) Suicide and/or suicide attempts
8) Homicide (our favorite and certainly the media’s favorite)
I`m not pretending to list all the responses and if anyone wishes to add to the list, be my guest. Here we are trying to come up with possible causes and solutions to the enigma of the mass-murderer, which, inevitably, leads to a series of scapegoats [guns, religion, parents, teachers, bullies, politicians, TV, video games, the media, Marilyn Manson, sex (or lack there of), pornography, drug companies, free will, etc…] . Yet we fail to grasp the very essence of human suffering. We, as human beings, are not all equal, physiologically, mentally, or emotionally. We have been given specific genetic trait’s that distinguish us from the 6,500,000,000 plus humans in the world. On that note, how can we not assume that some people are predisposed to deal with certain emotions in a different manner than the rest of us. Maybe our emotional responses are determined by our genetic makeup, just like our physiology and mental capabilities. Our environment provides the action, our genetics dictate the reaction.
“Every man has his breaking point” is a phrase we know very well. Maybe for some people, the onset of anger, hatred, frustration, loneliness, etc…is a catalyst for self-destruction.
Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
Perldog007
New member
I have seen some articles highlighting the number of the spree killers who were on psychotropic (right word? med students pitch in please) medication.
I would like to see more research on this. You start medicating the processes of the mind and you appear to be driving a car we don't even have the complete owners manual for.
Once again I find myself a perilously close to agreement with Kmoffit. Is there a difference in teaching students the principles that guided the founders and mandating that the students follow the religions discussed?
We do talk about the wrongs of those times such as slavery and cavalry charges on Native villages. Why not discuss the whole picture?
Would it be heresy(pun intended) to point out that religious convictions have led to good as well as evil?
Can we legislate away evil in humanity or discuss it away? I do believe we can certainly be more aware of it and more prepared to deal with the danger it presents.
Really don't want to see State funds used to push religion OR to stifle it. Would love to see some morality returned to schools.
Self respect is earned - where did self worth come from. A carcass is not worth much. A breathing carcass not much more. Our thoughts and deeds give us worth and allow us to respect ourselves. Self, in and of itself is not worthy of anything but as a means to earn self respect through right thoughts and actions.
Also the taboo status and demonization of guns makes them desirable to our youth. Want kids to do something? Tell them they can't.
The anti-gun mechanisms of denial and projection are already re-enforced. Then we drug the kids up at first sign of emotional difficulty (perhaps to make more money for the pharmaceutical companies?).
We then add to the madness by prohibiting just about everybody from carrying guns for defense. The one cop responsible to respond to 911 calls for over a thousand folks does their best. The murder/suicide gains media attention for the murders the committed before the shooter kills themselves or has the responders do the deed. The shooter gains celebrity and notoriety.
Then we are surprised with the results when the event repeats itself. I think the better question is why aren't there more of these tragedies? Gun free zones are everywhere. People are medicated instead of treated, children are taught to rationalize their way out or responsibility for anything by example.
And oh, by the way Guns are Taboo, they are bad, we don't need anymore guns. Turn on the television for the alternative programming. Guns are power, control. They make you somebody, shooting people gets things done in a big way. Then at the end of the movie you get the prize.
Just about everything our kids know about guns comes from the addled brains of Brady, Kellerman, or the sound counsel of Tinseltown. Then we drug them. Then we create victim rich environments everywhere.
For many families, dual income seems a necessary evil. Could it be that when there was generally one parent dedicated to keeping an eye on the offspring we had a bit more accountability?
I would like to see more research on this. You start medicating the processes of the mind and you appear to be driving a car we don't even have the complete owners manual for.
Once again I find myself a perilously close to agreement with Kmoffit. Is there a difference in teaching students the principles that guided the founders and mandating that the students follow the religions discussed?
We do talk about the wrongs of those times such as slavery and cavalry charges on Native villages. Why not discuss the whole picture?
Would it be heresy(pun intended) to point out that religious convictions have led to good as well as evil?
Can we legislate away evil in humanity or discuss it away? I do believe we can certainly be more aware of it and more prepared to deal with the danger it presents.
Really don't want to see State funds used to push religion OR to stifle it. Would love to see some morality returned to schools.
Self respect is earned - where did self worth come from. A carcass is not worth much. A breathing carcass not much more. Our thoughts and deeds give us worth and allow us to respect ourselves. Self, in and of itself is not worthy of anything but as a means to earn self respect through right thoughts and actions.
Also the taboo status and demonization of guns makes them desirable to our youth. Want kids to do something? Tell them they can't.
The anti-gun mechanisms of denial and projection are already re-enforced. Then we drug the kids up at first sign of emotional difficulty (perhaps to make more money for the pharmaceutical companies?).
We then add to the madness by prohibiting just about everybody from carrying guns for defense. The one cop responsible to respond to 911 calls for over a thousand folks does their best. The murder/suicide gains media attention for the murders the committed before the shooter kills themselves or has the responders do the deed. The shooter gains celebrity and notoriety.
Then we are surprised with the results when the event repeats itself. I think the better question is why aren't there more of these tragedies? Gun free zones are everywhere. People are medicated instead of treated, children are taught to rationalize their way out or responsibility for anything by example.
And oh, by the way Guns are Taboo, they are bad, we don't need anymore guns. Turn on the television for the alternative programming. Guns are power, control. They make you somebody, shooting people gets things done in a big way. Then at the end of the movie you get the prize.
Just about everything our kids know about guns comes from the addled brains of Brady, Kellerman, or the sound counsel of Tinseltown. Then we drug them. Then we create victim rich environments everywhere.
For many families, dual income seems a necessary evil. Could it be that when there was generally one parent dedicated to keeping an eye on the offspring we had a bit more accountability?
Last edited:
Wildalaska
Moderator
Hmmm, what could cause a seemingly normal, well-adjusted, and educated individual to metamorphose into a violent psychopath?
Organic. Tumour.
WildhaveyouhuggedyourCarcanotodayAlaska ™
WildhaveyouhuggedyourCarcanotodayAlaska
No, I did that last week.
Baba Louie
New member
Here is a simpleton's answer bereft of pyschoanalytical know-it-all-ness and even tho' I use terms associated with religion, that's just for description sake.
Sometimes the little devil (death) within overcomes the little angel (life) within and lets loose the "killing machine" animal.
I hate it when that happens.
Sometimes the little devil (death) within overcomes the little angel (life) within and lets loose the "killing machine" animal.
I hate it when that happens.
There have been several mentions about medications effecting behavior. In the psychiatric realm we worry more about suicide after a person starts taking anti-depressents. If you think about this it makes sense. A person who is severely depressed usually presents with lack of enegry, lethargy, sleeping 12+ hours a day, increased alcohol consumption, and they become recluse. When started on an anti-depressent like an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) this increases serotonin in the brain giving you more enegry and drive. These do not change the way you think. So if you were feeling suicidial and had a bad outlook on life, now you have the enegry to act on your feelings. This is when the highest percentage of depressed people attempt or commit suicide. Males are way more prone to resort to violent behaviors, while women tend to cut themselves, usually superficially, and take pills to overdose. Most of the time unsuccessfully. Now if someone is on a anti-psychotic like seroquel for schizophrenia, presenting with command hallunications telling them to hurt someone or themselves and suddenly withdrawls from taking the medication, they would become more likely to commit acts of violence. If someone is on medication and is compliant, it is very unlikely to have an exacerbation of symptoms. Statistically, it is said 1 in 10 people have some degree of mental illness. This could include mild to moderate depression, bi-polar disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), schizophrenia, or generalized anxiety disorder. Not all mental illness requires medication. I hope this helps clear any questions up about mental illness and medications.
toybox99615
New member
so far no crazed bombers
I sometime wonder why we have not had a crazed bomber going blowing up a mall, church, school or other event. There certainly is plenty of information on how to make one. Most of the components are more readily available than firearms.
I sometime wonder why we have not had a crazed bomber going blowing up a mall, church, school or other event. There certainly is plenty of information on how to make one. Most of the components are more readily available than firearms.
Wildalaska
Moderator
I sometime wonder why we have not had a crazed bomber going blowing up a mall, church, school or other event.
We had em. McViegh. 9-11.
WildhaveyouhuggedyourBauer25Alaska TM
imahotshot
New member
Be a victim?
I’m inclined to agree with most of what bclark1 says. And how to prevent, or at least reduce the number of these shootings?---And keep yourself from being one of the victims? Not easy. Trouble is, it’s hard to convince a lot of people to refuse to be victims. I can’t say I sympathize too much with the people at those schools and colleges. You are your own “first responder”----if you don’t want to respond, tough! And then, I think the real victims are the ones who want to be able to protect themselves, but are not allowed to do so by the rest of the flock of sheep. I seem to remember some students at the Virginia school had asked the legislature to let them be armed, and were rejected the day before their massacre. And I know of some schools which don't even allow the local police to carry guns on their grounds! The Dekalb school had installed “security” police, which responded in only two minutes---but, two minutes too late! I’ve never heard of any such shootings at any school in Israel! They know how to deal with cowardly terrorists---and these school shooters are definitely cowardly terrorists! Those who insist on relying on “big brother” to protect them have only one option: Just quietly sit there and die! And, an afterthought: In the past I have accussed the anti-gun crowd for doing exactly what perldog007 said.
I’m inclined to agree with most of what bclark1 says. And how to prevent, or at least reduce the number of these shootings?---And keep yourself from being one of the victims? Not easy. Trouble is, it’s hard to convince a lot of people to refuse to be victims. I can’t say I sympathize too much with the people at those schools and colleges. You are your own “first responder”----if you don’t want to respond, tough! And then, I think the real victims are the ones who want to be able to protect themselves, but are not allowed to do so by the rest of the flock of sheep. I seem to remember some students at the Virginia school had asked the legislature to let them be armed, and were rejected the day before their massacre. And I know of some schools which don't even allow the local police to carry guns on their grounds! The Dekalb school had installed “security” police, which responded in only two minutes---but, two minutes too late! I’ve never heard of any such shootings at any school in Israel! They know how to deal with cowardly terrorists---and these school shooters are definitely cowardly terrorists! Those who insist on relying on “big brother” to protect them have only one option: Just quietly sit there and die! And, an afterthought: In the past I have accussed the anti-gun crowd for doing exactly what perldog007 said.
toybox99615
New member
no Wild
I referring to bombings like the what whackjobs in Iraq and other places pull off. We have had bombers like McVay and the Uni-bomber. I'm talking about some nut job strapping on a few pounds of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel and walking into a mall, school or church and taking the whole place with him.
Are the abnormal people who shoot up places inherently gun oriented or death and destruction oriented? I do worry at some level that a bomber is more apt to get me or mine than a shooter. Maybe I just see booms as way more destructive as in what happened in Oklahoma where the whole place went boom.
I referring to bombings like the what whackjobs in Iraq and other places pull off. We have had bombers like McVay and the Uni-bomber. I'm talking about some nut job strapping on a few pounds of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel and walking into a mall, school or church and taking the whole place with him.
Are the abnormal people who shoot up places inherently gun oriented or death and destruction oriented? I do worry at some level that a bomber is more apt to get me or mine than a shooter. Maybe I just see booms as way more destructive as in what happened in Oklahoma where the whole place went boom.
Naerughiazk
Inactive
As others have said 15 seconds of fame. It's typical of social affluence and a dying society
The Tourist
Moderator
MarkoPo said:this increases serotonin in the brain giving you more enegry and drive. These do not change the way you think.
I have been preaching on this very thing for quite some time.
Despite the fact that modern folks consider themselves urbane and well informed, the average citizen knows more about the dark side of the moon than they do about the myriad of conditions we collectively refer to as "mental illness."
In fact, we have some blood-letting witch doctors here who claim modern meds actually are to blame for disorders. Perhaps they should take the blood from the lamb and use a hyssop to paint their doors so my illness does not taint them. Or perhaps leeches.
In truth, linking these tragedies to such disorders actually drives patients underground in shame. Instead of getting help, they buy feel-good tapes from Dr. Phil. They feel shame because some uninformed bubba tells them to "cheer up."
Well, folks, I've never felt better in my life. Instead of listening to masses with torches and pitchforks, I went and got an MMPI2 test. I got cognitive therapy, and I found a competent psychiatrist and a specially blended slate of medication.
Yes, we still have idiots. And they still find their way into international hobbyist forums preaching half-truths to tens of thousands of people who might not know any better. Eek, beware that child, she has claustrophobia! Keep her away from Geodon because even a three year old can become an axe murderer...
Like any problem, this tragedy of public shootings is going to solved by real investigation, not hysteria. And while non-compliance of meds exists for some people suffering from manias, they are more apt to blow the rent money in Vegas than to settle a score with a firearm.
In fact, one out of ten people have a problem. So if you have brothers and sisters and wed a spouse with brothers and sisters, it is likely that one of you suffers--right in your own family. If a parent suffers, than there is a +/-40% chance you will in your lifetime.
Be careful of the misinformation you spread. You might be judged by it someday soon.
Lawyer Daggit
New member
My view is media publicity plays a huge part, and the media needs to start characterising these individuals as pitiful failures- a title no one wants.
Then no one would be prepared to commit this crime.
Then no one would be prepared to commit this crime.