Why all the shootings?

ZeSpectre

New member
In another thread Wingman brought up the following question regarding the school shootings in Ill yesterday.

Why <did> this shooting and other like it occur, what is it in our society that would cause so much hate in someone. I grew up in an era of boys taking their rifles to school and hunting on the way home, a Saturday afternoon was shooting rats at the local dump, at 12 walking down to local corner store with a 22 and buying coke and a box of long rifle, guess what we never considered shooting anyone. Please I'm not trying to turn this into a then vs now thread however I would like to hear opinions as to the root cause of problems within modern America.
Trust me our lawmakers will says guns are the problem however we know it is not. If we are to maintain freedom in an extremely fast growing diverse population we must come to understand the cause of problems like this and stop with the idea additional laws cure the problem.

Since discussing that matter would be a major hijack of the thread in question I though I'd start a new one dedicated to some of these questions.

LETS STAY CIVIL OR THIS THREAD WILL VANISH FAST!
 
Limelight(Media attention), Stress of household, Wanting to fit in, pressure of being popular/looking good, Video games(yes, I still believe this is an influence), Medications doctors stuff down your throat, I can go on and on...

It may be none of these or a combination of a few. I still think media is #1.
 
The current state of the economy is putting enormous pressure on a lot of people. Folks are losing or will lose their homes (admittedly due to being greedy and buying more than they could -really- afford, but still losing a house is a horrible trauma). Daily living expenses (especially fuel) have exploded upwards, there are layoffs and cutbacks galore, and young folks trying to get started are often facing an unfriendly job market with little or no experience and 30k-50k or more of school debit before they've even gotten started.

So let's run that up against the "nanny state's" progressive brainwashing with promises that it will take care of everything and we don't have to deal with it.

Suddenly, KABOOM... The "Nanny state" CAN'T take care of everything and a lot of these brainwashed, self centered, never had to care about anything but their own joy, folks are left hanging in the wind with nobody to hold their hands. Resulting in despair and anger and a feeling that the "rules" have failed. From there it's a pretty short mental hop (for some folks) to arrive at "if the rules have failed then I don't have to obey any of them any more because nothing matters".

Add to that a lifelong brainwashing lie (from the managed media and Hollyweird) about the "super powers" of firearms and it's no wonder that guns become a "go-to" choice and again if someone has hit that "nothing matters" point they've also hit the emotionally disconnected "I can do anything I want " stage. KABOOM!

Another element to add into the mix, and believe me the irony is hard to swallow, is the success of our treatment of persons with borderline personalities. "Back in the day" they'd have self destructed at a far earlier age (generally when they were capable of far less damage) but now we are just good enough in the support realm to prop them up and get them through school (usually) and out into the working world....where they are suddenly on their own without the support that got them that far. Again, KABOOM only now they possibly have an income, and are old enough to legally obtain items (firearms, automobiles, whatever) that act as "force multipliers" and enhance their ability to wreak havock.
 
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Media attention to such shootings is a very large factor in the number of shootings. The media's fixation on such events leads to 'copy cat' shootings and perpetuates them.
 
The "me first" mentality of the modern US.

The shooter obviously could care less about his fellow human beings surrounding him. People are just trying to get what they can get and the hell with everyone else.

You can see this "me first" mentality everywhere, in traffic, in politics, at the workplace, in our culture. Respect for others is at an all time low, its as if people today operated in a vaccum.

50 years ago people cared for and respected those around them, not so much today, someone is just as much likely to spit on you as they are to offer a helping hand.
 
Here's the executive "brief list".

-Post holiday blues
-Anti-depressant drugs or sudden cessation of their use
-Lack of compassion
-Lack of Spirituality
-Poor parenting skills

Details:

First and foremost, let's look at the time of the year.

Jan/Feb - post holiday season blues, financial over-extension from Christmas, breakups of relationships that were kept together "thru the holidays", job losses (why do employers do it just before Christmas or just after?) and sometimes deadlines imposed for legal issues.

The holiday period is full of stress for lots of folks and it's followed by what -- generally cold, wet/snowy days, lack of sunshine, renewed pressures to perform in work or school, etc. Things that were pushed into the background in favor of the holidays come slamming back in your face. Depressing isn't it? Some people can't cope.

Now add - Anti-depressant drugs
Subject has been to some form of "counseling" and been prescribed a drug - zoloft, paxil, prozac, lithium, etc. to keep depression at bay. Of course the idea is that this is a "temporary" measure while the patient undergoes therapy to deal with the issues...but many don't continue expensive therapy and just rely on the drug. Occassionally doctors will stop prescribing if the patient won't come to therapy or start prescribing lower doses to wean them. The world crashes in on their depression and they get violently angry. They lash out at an oppressive world just before committing suicide.

I suspect the most recent Illinois campus shooting where seven were killed (2/14/08) will be one of these cases. I'll lay odds that the subject was previously on these types of medications or severely depressed over personal issues.

Lack of compassion in life
With so many people so busy in their daily lives, a lot of people don't know anyone to whom they can turn for guidance, advice or just a friendly ear. Fifty to seventy years ago some would go to their church priest or pastor. From there they might be referred to someone in the church who was a therapist, financial advisor, marriage counselor, etc. Sometimes all it took was for the priest to provide some encouragement. By and large, many people don't use this form of "social networking" anymore or have "faith" in their church or religion. Next time someone says they have serious worries, lend an ear. Even if you do nothing else, show some compassion to them as you might be the one who restores their faith in people.

Lack of spirituality
I was raised Irish-Catholic in my early life and while not a lot of it has stayed with me, the fundamentals have. The golden rule, heaven & hell, kindness, compassion, tolerance and the belief in God.

How many young people have never been to church? I think we'd see how kids who end up trying to kill others have little church experience - or if they do, their parents were semi-detached from the details of their kids' lives.

Poor Parenting - Kids second place to making a living
How many have parents too busy earning a living to really spend the time answering their child's questions? Or, more to the point, helping them through personal problems? How many parents spend a couple of hours with their kids imparting "wisdom" of their years or just helping kids put their problems in perspective? Too few, I fear.

Some of us can remember a hunting trip with Dad where we learned some new things about the world, about life, about handling problems, etc. Nothing like a candid conversation around a campfire for that. Or just listening to how adults thought through their problems or talked them over. I think for women it occurs earlier and more often with their mothers revealing life's "secrets" and this may be why girls seldom seem to go on mass killing sprees.
 
I think most of the reasons given here are excuses, the economy, lack of relgion, media, etc.

The media in other countries covers these school shooting, but they dont have the copy cats

Th Czech republic is like 70% non religious, but doesnt have school shootings.

Other countries are far poorer and have just as many firearms as the US, but dont have school shootings.

We just seem to have disportionate amount of selfish *******s then a some other countries, why that is I am not sure yet. But I do think our country has been overcome with a "me first, I dont give a **** about you" mentality.
 
I think with youth - which seems to be the problem - a lot of the "big picture" stuff misses them. It's always about them. I don't consider myself a "moral Titanic," doomed from the start, but I know I am more selfish and less patient than my parents were. There is a pop culture image of what your life is supposed to be that's perpetuated. There is a sense that you are supposed to be somebody, not nobody, and that fame is a greater virtue than honesty or empathy. My girlfriend taught for a year at a middle school near where I grew up. The girls there dressed nicer than her, and she was mistaken for a student more than once. This was a 24 year old woman among girls half her age. Middle schoolers look better than we did in high school, and high schoolers are beyond where we were in college. That image matters. Grow up fast and be an *******, because that's a signal of your importance. And Lord forbid you not be important.
Not everyone can be important though. Whatever it is: bad parents, bad other influences, chemical imbalance, or otherwise just an anomaly in a complex system. Some of these people flying off the handle is certainly a foreseeable outcome, even if it's not predictable on an individual level. Killing yourself doesn't make you important. But here's a way to really get some attention. It's nothing new, except for the attention of a hyperactive media god. This stuff did happen in the past, it's just that now, it gives you celebrity. You have a reason to take it to a public place. My parents told me stories about serial killers and people who lost it over unrequited love decades ago. One that sticks out in my mind is a high schooler who ambushed a family of 6 in their home when their daughter dumped him. This was in the 60s. The only difference is that now he'd do it in their church or school, because it'll put you on the news faster.
Why guns? They seem to create the most hype. A shooter in a school with rows of cowards thronging on the edge of the police line is far more exciting than a guy running over people around a city. But if there weren't guns, it'd be something. Bombs, cars, knives. We can't ban it all. Guns are just a polarizing topic, moreso than fertilizer or cutlery, so they can only add to the sensationalism.
There will always be bad eggs and instances where people snap, and there's nothing we can do about it. It's a fundamental part of life. Where this can be a problem is when the two issues above - the desire to be "someone" and the fact that there will always be crazies - is when you combine it with a victimist country. We don't fight robbers. When shooting starts, we lock the door and hide under our desks. We aren't even responsible for the contracts we voluntarily sign. We are instructed to comply at every turn. This attitude creates a target-rich environment for these people. And honestly, while pop culture may shift, the fact that some people are going to snap won't. The only way to prepare for these instances is to put the victims on equal footing with the attackers. This means assuring that your population is defense-enabled, at all times. But the same people who give the attackers this stage are the same ones who want to prevent that. In a sick way, one could almost surmise a moneymaking conspiracy on the part of liberal media outlets. I won't go there, but it's food for thought.
Anyway, just my ramblings...
 
You know, this whole conversation takes me back to the week after 9/11.
I was living near and working in Washington DC at the time and for about 8 days after people were -really- paying attention to the other folks around them.

Strangely enough the result of that attention was that people were suddenly, well, PEOPLE and not just more objects in the way as someone rushed towards whatever goal they were aimed at.

How astounding that in the wake of those events, with all of the fear and uncertainty floating thick in the air, for about a week DC became one of the nicest, most polite, and helpful, cities I've ever been in.

It faded pretty fast though and the "Me First" syndrome worked it way back into action. <sigh>.
 
I wish we would all be able to come up with a solution to the problem. I see many factors being present and each case is somewhat different. We have seen bad breakups, depressed kids, bullied kids, kids who needed revenge in some form or another, kids who got in a fight and the next day decided to kill those he/she fought with. A variety of things could be the cause, not just one, and finding those and then trying to say that this will work here on out just will not happen.

Each is different, but yet each have some common "goals", for lack of a better term, that the shooter wants to accomplish...get recognized for the way he/she goes out knowing that they will get the attention of the media and their name will be spoken in someone's mouth for a fleeting second, also, they lack the understanding that just because today is bad, does not mean tomorrow has to be the same, there is no desire to continue in their life's journey, they just want to end it.

I could list a variety of issues that I think contribute to this epidemic, much like BillCA did, and to some extent I think it would definitely help not hurt to change these things because some of the ones who would commit these heinous crimes today may not if those things were changed, however, I see it as always happening.

Here is another interesting thread that was started a while back concerning the same school shootings general topic
School Shootings In General
 
I believe as a society we are in a crisis and if we wish to remain free we need to determine the cause because if we do not control ourselves then someone will control us.

In my life I have seen the following changes of course not one but combined break down a community.

Removing GOD from schools.
High rate of divorce.
Large numbers of unwed mothers(no father in home)
Mostly young female teachers in elementary schools.
Both parents working 40+ hours per week.
Daycare for children from birth.
Television,changing in programing where right and wrong is blurred.
Video games with extreme violence.
Lack of standards/morals in schools.
Lack of discipline both in home and schools

While one point alone is not the answer all combined can raise some very angry young people, while our schools scream diversity and love it seems the killing grows worse. Although my children are grown if I had young children I would not allow them to attend public schools nor would I have a TV in the house and one of the parents would be at home at all times if one cannot do these things then simply do not have children because they are too important to drop them into the care of our present system. Just my two cents on the
subject.:(
 
I think too many here are trying to make their own pet subject fit. This might not be the best way to analyze the issue.

Another way to look at it is what do the shooters have in common? Anything?

-Most seem to be white males between the ages of 17 and 25.
-They seem to like to wear the color black.

What else before we start drawing conclusions?
 
wingman,
I like most of your list. I don't believe that God=morality or No God = No Morality but that's a debate for another time and location.

Another weird thing I see a lot (My wife is a teacher) is the increasing number of "parents" who seem to expect teachers and the school to raise their kids, but raise holy screaming hell if the teacher or school does anything remotely resembling punishment.

My wife had a kid write "I will treat others with respect" 100 times on a sheet of paper recently. The kid took it home and the parents called my wife AT HOME to complain about the "abuse" of their child. What they got was me on the phone setting them straight about calling MY HOUSE well AFTER HOURS to complain about a situation caused by THEIR undisciplined child.

The husband implied that he knew where we lived and he might have to "stop by" to discuss this in person and folks I'm usually one to try and diffuse a situation but I told him if he showed up at our place that somebody had better have bail money ready for him.

That was followed up by a call to the school to find out how the HELL those "parents" got our unlisted phone number!

Weeks ago and reciting this STILL makes my blood boil. With "parents" setting that kind of an example no wonder the kids think they can just do what they want when they want. What happened to boundaries???
 
You know, this whole conversation takes me back to the week after 9/11.
I was living near and working in Washington DC at the time and for about 8 days after people were -really- paying attention to the other folks around them.

Strangely enough the result of that attention was that people were suddenly, well, PEOPLE and not just more objects in the way as someone rushed towards whatever goal they were aimed at.

How astounding that in the wake of those events, with all of the fear and uncertainty floating thick in the air, for about a week DC became one of the nicest, most polite, and helpful, cities I've ever been in.

It faded pretty fast though and the "Me First" syndrome worked it way back into action. <sigh>.

Interesting.

Maybee the stress level in this country is off the chart, and given this condition people just sort of revert back to a more primitive sort of behavior pattern in which their needs are given complete priority over everyone elses as a sort of survival mechanism.

I do think that our lives are way more stressful then people lives were 50 years ago, when life moved at a much slower pace. Of course no one is making you conform to this lifestyle, but the social pressure to conform to societies standards are very powerful.

Ultimately I think people have gotten their priorites out of whack and have forgotten about the things in life that truely matter, like family and friends, and have decended into a high stress lifestyle of trying to keep up with the Jones and conspicuous consumption, to busy to teach their kids how to act in a decent society.

Personally I think that we as a society really need to rethink our priorties and revisist what made this country great in the first place.
 
Add to all of the above the devaluation of the American male. For most of history we were the head of the family, the breadwinner, the guardian, the sovereign. Now we're not even required for having a kid anymore. What's a guy to do these days when we're seemingly the least necessary component and all too often told to be as least like a man as possible? Feminism has gone way too far and has sabotaged our people irreparably.
 
I think too many here are trying to make their own pet subject fit. This might not be the best way to analyze the issue.

Another way to look at it is what do the shooters have in common? Anything?

-Most seem to be white males between the ages of 17 and 25.
-They seem to like to wear the color black.

What else before we start drawing conclusions?

It might be interesting to find out if there is a commonality for

-Economic status
-Family status (single parent, abusive spouse, brothers, sisters, etc)
-Drug use (illegal, legal, or prescribed)
-Peer group (being a total loner is NOT normal)
-What sorts of rules were there in this person's household (bedtimes, chores, etc)
-What sorts of punishments were in this person's household (time out, spankings, etc)

One I've always wondered about... do they have any pets? What sort and how are the pets treated? I feel that tells you a LOT about how a person really feels about other living things because I've NEVER seen a sociopathic type with lots of green, healthy plants and one or more healthy, happy, and well cared for pets in their home. The only time I ever saw these things in an alleged "psycho killer's" home the whole thing wound up being a complete frame job.
 
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I can't even read that blog. What a self absorbed, emo ass.

We teach this self fascination and then wonder why these selfish suicidal bastards crave attention?
 
Add to all of the above the devaluation of the American male. For most of history we were the head of the family, the breadwinner, the guardian, the sovereign. Now we're not even required for having a kid anymore. What's a guy to do these days when we're seemingly the least necessary component and all too often told to be as least like a man as possible? Feminism has gone way too far and has sabotaged our people irreparably

I dont think that feminism is really all that relevent here. Yes the rabid man haters are annoying, but very few women really pay that much attention to them anyway.

Most women are not at war with men, they just want to be treated equals (well most of them anyway).

Feminist are just another scapegoat, just like guns are.

The real problem in my opinion is a society that seems to breed far to many selfish *******s who think the world revolves around them and that shooting up a school is a perfectly OK thing to do.
 
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