Why all the hate? The IPSC/IDPA debate

Jeep,

I have a second place trophy in my office (SSR SS) that I won at the IDPA Nationals (2000) with a $150.00 revolver, $18.00 holster, and three speedloaders. I have a 3rd place trophy right next to it from the 2001 Nationals I won with a stock G17, and about eighty bucks worth of blade tech equipment and 4 mags.

My most cherished trophy is a "SSR Champion" trophy I learned at the Liberty Bell match in Pa. I used a Model 15 and cheap speedloaders to best some really good moongun shooters.

You can buy an expensive gun in IDPA but the guy who refuses to lose will kick your butt with a box stock gun.

Some guys go high dollar in ESP and CDP, but that's cause they can. They don't do a darn thing better than a good Springfield and Kimber with a decent trigger can. Prettier though, but that's about it.

FWIW, I've shot Sevigny's glocks this year. It's all stock Glock parts and the pull weight isn't any different than my G17 with a glock 3.5# connector installed.

A quick look to the 2004 nats results shows that a couple of the top 5 in CDP Master class had factory guns. They were smithed, but nowhere near the expense discussed in the above post. ESP Ma is pretty similar in that respect. Heck, on of the top 10 in ESP Ma used a nearly stock Beretta that had only a trigger job. I doubt that shooter felt he was ill prepared to take on the high end 1911's there.

It really is the Indian and not the arrow.

Ted
 
ted murphy:

Sounds as if you have a pretty fair idea of what to do with a handgun, from the competition results you mentioned either that or you are pretty lucky, likely the former.

As for myself, I shoot IPSC Production class with a Star Model 30, 9mm, that when new, a while back, cost between $200 and $250. I also have a Kimber I shoot in Limited 10 class, which was more expensive. Have also shot Limited with an old Browning Hi-Power that I put out about $65 in actual cash, plus the Walther P-38 I traded back in 1967, total value slightly less than $100 for the Hi-Power.

Back when I was shooting High Power Rifle, Ron Troyer who lived in Ohio then used to shoot with us at Malvern. He had been 3 or 4 times in a row, Civilian High Power Rifle Champ. He came down to a 600 yard match one time, with a Model 70 Winchester sporter, in caliber 270 Win. He put Redfield sights on it, Iron Sights, and proceeded to out shout everyone who was there, or almost everyone.

Like you said, it isn't the arrow, it's the Indian.
 
Ted,

I dont get it. You say to compete in open and limited you need expensive guns. Then you say you dont. The only difference between most limited guns and guns used in ESP is a bull barrell and a magwell. They are otherwise identical. I dont think that the gun makes a rats bit of difference. Stock glocks compete very well in limited. Add an optic and they shoot well in open. I was just taking note to the normal myth that you need to spend a lot of money in IPSC and not in IDPA. The top guys use expensive guns in both. They dont need to but the fact is that they do. Just because the top guys in IDPA in ESP and CDP use a "factory" gun doesnt mean it isnt $2K. Look at Burkett, Bulter and Leatham. They arent shooting $500 pistols. I was trying to find an old post by Burkett that he talked about how there was no difference in cost between guns used in IPSC and IDPA. I couldnt find it though.
 
Jeeps,

Read my posts again

I never said you "had to have" expensive guns in Limited/Open, I just said that they were there. And that is quite true. And the majority of my comments were related to IDPA by the way.

In reference to limited class:

Until you get to the top of the game, you do not need the expensive guns in Open and Limted. But the fact remains that the vast majority of the open and limited shooters I know, put a boatload of money into the guns. And there isn't a darn thing wrong with that. For most those fellas, it's a large portion of the fun of USPSA. The act of tricking out your gun and playing with different accessories and add-ons. Like the teenagers tricking out their honda civics. I've beaten my friend with his $2600.00 limited gun with my wheelgun at matches, but you cannot deny he is having as much if not more fun than me at the range.

Having handled Leatham's IDPA gun, it isn't much beyond a stock gun. I could have one like it in the $1200.00 range, though my $450 Springfield with a $75.00 trigger job does what I need it to.. Sevigny's all stock too btw.

FWIW, of all the esp shooters I know, I'd say the average value of the 1911's used is about $800.00 with all the tricking out. Low point is $350.00 and high point is $2200.00



Ted
 
coke vs pepsi etc.

I have always been told that anything less than a 45 is a sissy cal.

Yea right

tell that to Leatham, Mickulek, Koo, Munson & company

but I still tell my brother that he shoots a sissy cal.
 
guns for shooting

I personally have seen RL and the boys and girls shoot the high dollar race guns at the Bianchi cup.

I don't think that the type of gun or how expensive it is determines the winner. When a person gets to that class of shooting the gun does not matter much. the hours of practice do.

As for me I have probably what is the best value for the money. I shoot a Spgfld 1911A1 "loaded" retails for 725.00-825.00 depending where you buy.

Last week I was shooting empty 12 Ga. Hulls from 40 ft. I have not done anything to the gun since purchasing other than reducing the trigger to 4 lbs.

I do shoot a 200 gr. Semi round nose lead with 4.1 gr of Bullseye.

The most accurate handgun right out of the box I have shot.

I don't practice but maybe once a month plus shoot a USPSA match once a month.
 
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