Why a shotgun?

D

DasBoot

Moderator
Many replies regarding what to use in the event of a home invasion favor the use of a shotgun.
Why?
One pro...the BG MIGHT hear you crank a round into the chamber.
That's good.
He might NOT hear it also.
Another pro.....far more area covered upon releasing a shot.
Also good.
One more.....the sheer visual intimidation of a 12g pointed in his direction might make for a hasty retreat.
However, me personally, I don't think I would be comfortable OR as effective sneaking about in the dark, through doorways and around corners, with a 3ft+ weapon in my hands.
What do I do when I round a corner and come face to face with this bum?
Let one go into the ceiling?
And if I'm pointing it straight ahead, it can be grabbed and used against me.
What if I have to swing around suddenly in a narrow space?
Too many negative possibilities for me.
If I can see the BG(s) and/or I have time to get into a defensive position I might opt for a SG, but in the dark, around the house, I'll stick w/a handgun.
If I'm missing something, please educate me.
Just my 2 cents.:cool:
 
If I were you I would keep the HD shotgun "Cranked" and loaded.

I would not make a sound outside of flicking the safety off.
While I have heard stories of the sound of a racking shotgun scaring off criminals... I would not throw away all sense of reason and logic for these stories.

THE REASON PEOPLE LIKE SHOTGUNS FOR HOME DEFENSE. Has nothing to do with sounds or shot patterns... It has everything to do with stopping power. Stopping power may not exist for handguns, and it may be somewhat elusive with rifle calibres. But a 12 guage shotgun is the beginning of the realm where you can feel confident that 1 or 2 decent hits will stop any human being.

Sneaking around the house? You may want to largely re-think your plan. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that either. I would guard an area which gave me an advantage. If you have children on the other side of the house, I can see the issue, otherwise... try not to pull any Rambo junk.

In the end you'll just have to pick what gun works best for your situation in your house. But the shotgun is one of the only weapon that can be called an "attack stopper" with any degree of confidence.
 
Shot spread at typical 'in house' distances is not very large at all.
Smaller shot (BB or so) at close range remains bunched and can deliver a hell of a wound.
The biggest problem is moving around in a confined space with a weapon with a minimum barrel length of 18 inches.
 
I do have a child at the other end of the house.
So, if I hear unfamiliar sounds/noises, that's the first direction I'm heading in.
 
DasBoot, . . . the HD shotgun is simply for stopping power. At HD distances, you are shooting a column of lead that is not going to spread more than a few inches at best, and in most circumstances, . . . just make one huge wound.

Very few individuals survive a COM shot from a 12ga at less than 20 feet, whether it is #6 bird shot or 00 buck or slug, . . . too much damage will be done, . . . and if it is two shots, . . . the guy will need a preacher, priest, or rabbi instead of a surgeon.

Stay in your room, . . . call the cops, . . . let them do what they get paid for. Tell them where you are, . . . where your child is, . . . and that you believe the intruder is ______________________ .

May god bless,
Dwight
 
+1 281 Quad Cam

In addition, just about everyone can hit better with a long gun than a handgun.

Someone is going to take it away from you? Well, you have the handle part, and they have the business end. The first thing I will do with my 12-guage when someone tries to grab it, is jam it into their face, then I if got no face contact, I'll pull back on the handle part real hard. If they don't let go, where are they? Arms out in front of them, staring down the business end, which, believe me, is just about to go BOOM. If they let go, they are now the perfect target. It's even more likely to be fun for you if you are using a semi-auto, 'cause you can make it go boom more often.

But don't believe the part about the load spreading out at across-the-room distances. It usually won't. Pattern your shot gun at the distances in your house. You probably will have a hard time finding a pattern more than 3-4 inches, depending on the size of your "castle." Even 1 or 2 inches may be the most in a lot of rooms.
 
.223 semiauto rifle with M193, TAP or Federal 223T3

Another pro.....far more area covered upon releasing a shot.
Also good.
Click to expand...
wrong. go to the range and test the patterns. The spread with 00 Buck ist about 10cm (4") every 10m (10yds)

One more.....the sheer visual intimidation of a 12g pointed in his direction might make for a hasty retreat.
Click to expand...
So you think that any invader would be less scared by a .22 barrel?
If a .22 doesn't scare you, a 12ga won't either. IMHO relying on the scaring look of a gun is just not using a gun properly.

And IMHO a .223 semiauto rifle with M193, TAP or Federal 223T3 ammo is what's best for home defense. Good terminal ballistics, no overpenetration, fast follow-ups and surgical accuracy. Just imagine only one pellet from your shotgun ovepenetrating, hitting a family member or neighbor...
 
Like any tool, you have to choose the right tool for the job. In the arena of home defense as the job, everybody's situation is different.

While I agree that carbines and shotguns are great for home defense they aren't always the perfect weapon. Often a handgun serves as a better tool. Handguns are more agile in confined places (small apartments, hallways with doors on either side, etc.) and allow the manipulation of other things with a persons free hand (light switches, phones, picking up small kids or pets, opening a window to escape, locking a door, etc.).

But, using a handgun assumes you need to be "clearing your house" so to speak. Unless absolutely necessary (such as going to protect little Johnny and Susy), I think it's a huge mistake.

Most people agree that the BEST tactic to use if you have a home invasion is to barricade yourself in a single room, train your weapon on the door, and call the police. In this instance, rapid and powerful firepower is ideal. The shotgun serves this purpose well. There's no maneuvering through tight corners or other stuff.

Edited to add:

Guns should be determined for use based on their qualities such as stopping power, reliability, ease of use, etc. but NOT on their scary appearance or the sound they make when you "cock" or "rack" a shell. Don't count on "scaring" the bad guy. While you're cocking your weapon he may be shooting you dead.

MY personal home defense weapon is the handgun for speed and ease and reliablity. It stays hidden in the nightstand and is accessable immediately with one hand. I can easily check on suspect noises in the night that don't sound like a burglar, but I won't sleep well unless I check and I'm not going to call the police for a small noise. However, if the noise turns out to be not-so-innocent, then I'm barricading myself in my room and getting the shotgun or AR15 out and calling the police.
 
Last edited:
I used to have a Remington 870 under the bed.

Now i have an AR-15 16"

Small package with more capacity... But definatly less power.

Honestly I didn't think long and hard about it, and now I wonder if I should have kept the shotgun... But from what I hear .223 is good because it penetrates less than most rifles indoors. And a good .223 defense load will fragment reliably.
 
I also have a child across my house. If someone comes in, that's where i'm going. not because i'm brave, but because of her. I use a glock 27, but my wife will be behind me with the 870 full of buckshot. The reason I carry a sub glock is because of a shotguns length. I live in massachusetts and my house is full of small rooms and corridors. If the BG got a hold of the barrel on the shotgun your screwed. open floor plans like in the south are best IMO for shotguns. Small cramped houses I would go with a pistol. It's all about the enviroment your in. I won't be clearing my house with the pistol. Just going to my daughters room. search and destroy i'll leave to the police. I was in the Army and I no longer want to do the search part.
 
It's been touched on, but here's my .02:

1) DO NOT rack the slide on your shotgun. First, a round should already be loaded in the chamber. Second, you will lose your element of surprise. The noise may simply serve to alert the BG to your location.

2) As discussed, no sneaking around the house! (to check on kids may be one exception). Barracade youself and call 911. If you really want to be situationally prepared, you should always have a cell phone along with a home phone in your room. This way, if the BG takes the home phone receiver off the hook downstairs or in the next room, you can still call 911.

In short, if you know there is an invader, hide in a strong defensive position, call 911, and be ready to shoot.

ps- I'd much prefer a pump shotgun to semi-auto one in this scenario :)
 
I have cut clean 1/4" holes in 1/4" steel plate at 20 feet with a .223. The bullets exited with enough force to ruin a brick wall behind the plate. Unless using frangible ammunition, the .223 is not a good choice if overpenetration is an issue.
Bill
 
I have cut clean 1/4" holes in 1/4" steel plate at 20 feet with a .223. The bullets exited with enough force to ruin a brick wall behind the plate. Unless using frangible ammunition, the .223 is not a good choice if overpenetration is an issue.
Bill
Click to expand...

What loading?

A 62gr M855 and a 55gr are different animals... Some civilian defense rounds with lower weights are even more likely to keyhole and be stopped by a few walls.
 
I don't remember. It was in 1974-75. All I know is we used the steel plate in the basement of the gunshop to stop .38 wadcutters. When the shop got an AR 180 in, we snuck down there one night and shot a couple of mags at a silhouette target taped to the plate. The next day the owner discovered the damage. I saw the plate, and the damage to the brick wall behind it looked like someone had been hitting the wall with a pickaxe.
I still think .223 is way too overpenetrative in an urban scenario.
Bill
 
well a few points to ponder.


A "lite" shotgun load of 1 oz has 435 grains of lead going out the barrel. at about 1400 FPS. A .223 out of a 16 inch barrel is most likely 62 gr at 2400 fps. A 12 ga buckshot load of OO buck is, I believe, 9 .30 cal diam lead balls, with a total wieght of 1 3/8 oz. or approx 600 grains of lead leaving the barrel at about 1250 Fps. This very nearly equals ALL FIVE shots from a j frame loaded with 125 grainers of +P 38 ammo all at the same time, with 4, 5, or more instant reloads waiting.

What stops people from continuing a fight are hits to the CNS or loss of blood or breakdowns in the skeletal system severe enough to supprt further offensive attacks. Frontal shotguns blasts have a very good chance of reaching the CNS. Launch a load of buckshot at a standing person and odds greatly increase that you will hit the spinal column with one pellet with enough force to disrupt bodily actions. IF not, you will present enough aeration of the body as to increase the speed of exinguination or bleed out..
Finally if you can do that, and you hit lower, most likely you can create a breakdown of eitheer the pelvic structure or hips or break a thigh bone which will prevent the BG from pressing on his attack to you. slugs will lower the number of preforations one makes with each shot, but instead of 3/8 or smaller holes, the holes are now 7/8 or so in diameter.
 
Any effective defensive load in any caliber is bound to overpenetrate common things like drywall, windows, house doors, etc. You need to be aware of this and just account for every shot.

Handgun rounds punch through walls just like slugs, .223, buckshot, etc.

For an interesting study of what ammo does to walls, see this site: Ammo routinely punches through mutliple layers of drywall.

www.boxotruth.com
 
Erick of course is right on. Everyone who thinks they know how a shotgun patterns should go buy some butcher paper and head to the range to pattern it. Most of you will be surprised how little the spread is in an indoors situation. Pattern your gun with your defense loads every five yards out to 30 yards or so and you will know your shotguns abilities. If you have let Hans Vang sell you a barrel you might pattern it out farther. Also find out how to shoot slugs. Basically practice, practice, and practice some more.

The shotgun is a very misunderstood weapon and I would hope that whenever you get the chance that you take some training. Last year I took a Rob Haught shotgun class put on by 10-8 and it was excellent. I improved a ton and learned a lot about the capabilities and handicaps of the shotgun.

-David
 
Last edited:
As some have opined, one of the most talked about things in firearms BBS forums is the biz of 'the sound of racking a shell into your 12 ga'.
I have always thought this was a bad idea. Its not prudent to let an intruder know where you are, or what your status is. Letting him get close enough to be intimidated by the size of your johnson is not prudent either.
I prefer a platform other than a shotty for Close encounters, and I darn sure would not advertise where I was, what I was armed with or what my intentions were.
In FL, if he is in my house, uninvited, in the middle of the night, its my decision as to what happens.
Don't obsess over all the boogymen of firearms forums. Over penetration, what load will get you in trouble, to shoot or not to shoot, are all much discussed issues. In the end, you need to decide what works best for you. In time of extreme need, none of the guys here will be by your side to back you up.
 
As far as the length of the shotgun, it is not really an issue. I could disarm someone much easier if they have a handgun rather than a properly deployed shotgun. That butt stock acts as an anchor when its tucked under the arm pit. If a scum bag grabs it from the side you simply pivot on his hand and nail him.
 
What do I do when I round a corner and come face to face with this bum?
Let one go into the ceiling?
Click to expand...

Is there a reason you'd carry it with the muzzle pointing towards the ceiling? A muzzle down carry tends to be harder to block and even if they do grab it you have a good chance of being to let one go into their lower extremities.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top