Why a .380?
- Thread starter maustypsu
- Start date
christcorp
New member
We don't know anywhere NEAR the whole story here. It mentions 3 guys breaking in, but only 1 being shot. It sounds like on the first sound of gun shot, the other 2 took off. (That proves how valuable a gun is in the majority of cases). As for the criminal who was shot, under that type of stress, it's not uncommon to unload an entire magazine. Without even thinking about it, you can unload 11 rounds out of a clip in approximately 3 seconds. Chances are, the same result would have happened if the shooter only had a 7 round magazine. Chances are also, if the 11 shots were panic shots (Which they probably were), that if the shooter had an 11 round 9mm, s/he probably would have shot all 11 rounds of the 9mm into the criminal also. As far the criminal still being alive; that is 100% irrelevant.
a) Your goal is NOT to Kill someone. It's simply to stop the threat.
b) There are plenty of reports of people shot with 44 magnums that survive; as well as reports of a person dieing from a single 22LR round.
I would say that a lot of this depends on the shooter and the WHOLE story. (Sorry, but internet stories are sometimes just stories). 11 accurate shots from a 380 very well could have been better than 3 shots of a 40sw and missing with the rest. In the real world, "One Shot Stops" are theoretical. "Killing" the criminal is not the gauge in which a weapon is determined to be a valid choice or not.
Edward429451
Moderator
It was a beretta. Held 12 or 13 I think. He shot through his front window.
Point well taken and you are correct, but him bein shot 11 times and is supposed ly coming along fine, it made me go hmmm. What if the buds hadnt run away?
He's charged with attempted murder supposedly based on the amount of shots fired. I know him personally and he's one of the calmest people you'd ever meet.
So much for the make my day law.
Point well taken and you are correct, but him bein shot 11 times and is supposed ly coming along fine, it made me go hmmm. What if the buds hadnt run away?
He's charged with attempted murder supposedly based on the amount of shots fired. I know him personally and he's one of the calmest people you'd ever meet.
So much for the make my day law.
Thermodyne
New member
380 was just from evolution. Back in the early 1900's the 25 was what a gentleman or lady carried. Then JB and Colt brought out the 1903 32acp. And the only complaint was that it need a little more punch. So you get the 380, which is stronger but fits the pistol tooling and frames already in use. About the same time, Colt also had the 38 Auto, and then later came the 38 super auto. None of which had any great popularity. It should also be noted that the 1911 Colt 45acp was not available for civilian sale for several years after becoming the US service pistol.
You know that line of commercials that used to say something about wanting something, but not as much of it? I cannot remember whether it was for beer, cigarettes or feminine products, but you get the idea. Well, that's what .380 is for. I used to carry mine as an off-duty gun, since it was a bigger caliber than my .22 off-duty gun.
It all boils down to personal preference, caliber notwithstanding.
The Doc is out now.
PS, but then I sold it and feeling sellers angst years later, bought this replacement.
It all boils down to personal preference, caliber notwithstanding.
The Doc is out now.
PS, but then I sold it and feeling sellers angst years later, bought this replacement.
On a sad note, I'll post this article from last week on the deadliness of the much maligned .380 caliber.
A stolen LCP .380, one shot to the chest, and one deceased off duty policeman.
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/mobile_news/teen_arrested_in_officers_murder
Lot's of lessons here, many of which have nothing to do with this thread so I won't touch on them, but the one that does says the .380 is designed for a deep hideout ccw and will definitely work in a SD role and shouldn't be so lighly dismissed as it is around here sometimes.
A stolen LCP .380, one shot to the chest, and one deceased off duty policeman.
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/mobile_news/teen_arrested_in_officers_murder
Lot's of lessons here, many of which have nothing to do with this thread so I won't touch on them, but the one that does says the .380 is designed for a deep hideout ccw and will definitely work in a SD role and shouldn't be so lighly dismissed as it is around here sometimes.
It's true that when the bullets start to fly, you want nothing less than a 45-70 or 12ga event if these choices could not be carried in your pocket.
No one ever walked away from a gunfight saying 'I had too many bullets' or 'my bullets were too big', but mouse guns carry nice.
The shooting alluded to above sounds very similar to a shooting that Jeff Cooper related to his students over 20 years ago. Cooper was going to appear as an expert witness at the shooter's trial. The shooter has been charged with murder. The bad guy died after being shot 11 or more times with a .380acp Beretta. The DA's theory was that the shooter must have used excessive force which showed his intent to kill rather than to merely stop the threat. Cooper had reviewed the evidence. The autopsy showed that all the bullets entered the bad guy while he was standing. Cooper said he was going to testify that the shooter had to shoot the bad guy 11 times simply to stop him because the .380acp was that ineffective in stopping the threat.
I forgot to ask him when I went back for further training how the trail turned out.
This has no bearing on whether a round is lethal, but indicates that some rounds take longer to stop a threat than others. I have seen the results of shootings where people were killed; one with one shot from a .22 rimfire rifle, and another where a 6'9" 22 year old was killed with 7 hits from a 25acp.
Both people died, but it took a minute or more.
If I have to shoot someone, I want the threat to cease as soon as possible. Hopefully within a couple of seconds, not 10 seconds, or 20, or 30, or more.
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fightingbard
New member
Tiny self defence solutions 
Well..for me basically because I don't think any revolver is really a pocket gun...
All the best.
Well..for me basically because I don't think any revolver is really a pocket gun...
All the best.
engineer88
New member
Put a Keltec P3AT in your pocket next time you are at the gun store and then a a j-frame. Your question will be automatically answered. 
Just to compare my 637 and P3AT...
Revolver
Weight: 16-17oz loaded
Rounds: 5 (but more powerful)
Semi
Weight: 10-11oz loaded with a laser on it even
Rounds: 7 (or 8 with a +1 mag base)
The auto is flatter and faster to reload, but also less powerful making a need to reload possibly more necessary. I think there is a fine balance between number of rounds and power of said rounds. I solve the issue by either carrying a higher capacity semi auto in .45ACP or 9mm by itself with only an extra mag, or when I carry a revolver as primary, I usually carry a small semiautomatic as a backup. For my BUG I am not so caliber picky and anything from .25ACP to .380ACP is fine for that in my book. YMMV
Just to compare my 637 and P3AT...
Revolver
Weight: 16-17oz loaded
Rounds: 5 (but more powerful)
Semi
Weight: 10-11oz loaded with a laser on it even
Rounds: 7 (or 8 with a +1 mag base)
The auto is flatter and faster to reload, but also less powerful making a need to reload possibly more necessary. I think there is a fine balance between number of rounds and power of said rounds. I solve the issue by either carrying a higher capacity semi auto in .45ACP or 9mm by itself with only an extra mag, or when I carry a revolver as primary, I usually carry a small semiautomatic as a backup. For my BUG I am not so caliber picky and anything from .25ACP to .380ACP is fine for that in my book. YMMV
32 vesus 380
Has anyone made a side by side comparison of the Keltec 32s and 380s? Is the slight addition thickness of the 380 enough to be a problem?? I feel like a small caliber is better than being empty handed, and I am too scrawny to conceal even a model 60 S&W in summer clothes.
Has anyone made a side by side comparison of the Keltec 32s and 380s? Is the slight addition thickness of the 380 enough to be a problem?? I feel like a small caliber is better than being empty handed, and I am too scrawny to conceal even a model 60 S&W in summer clothes.
The following are my opinions only but are predicated on 26 years of dealing with criminals as my job and on extensive firearm training ("tactical/combat", self-defense and otherwise) during the same period of time:
(1) It is always a mistake to try to "catagorize" an offender. Criminals can be smart or stupid and everything in-between. Those of you who think there's no difference between a drug-crazed individual and a sober one in terms of possessing a rational thought process (everything else being "equal") simply haven't dealt with enough of them. It doesn't take rational thought to rob someone and it requires irrational thought to resist arrest when faced with overwhelming odds.
(2) Never count on the mere display of a firearm to scare off a determined criminal. Yes, it might happen but do not count on it. Anytime you brandish a weapon against another person it had better be for a legitimate reason (in most states that means you have good reason to fear for the loss of your life or limb or that of an innocent other). And if you have a legitimate reason for pulling a gun on someone you must be prepared to kill him.
(3) Killing a person might not stop a criminal from slaying or maiming you (doesn't do you much good if he later expires in a hospital after leaving you dead at the scene) and stopping a bg from committing his crime may not require killing him. This seeming paradox is the reason it is important to bring a man-stopping caliber/cartridge to the fray if at all practical when your very life is at stake. Many-and I am one-believe that the minimum requirement needed to reliably stop a man in his tracks or to keep him from taking very many steps is a .357 Magnum "and up". This isn't to say that a lesser caliber should not be considered. Climate, social circumstance and other factors may dictate toting a .380/.32 ACP or some such as opposed to having nothing but a set of keys to defend yourself with.
(4) Finally, don't kid yourself. Having more ammo than needed is a far better scenario than not having enough. Simply being a good shot or having completed a firearm self-defense course is no guarantee that you won't expend more ammunition than is "needed" on a single individual during the heat of the battle when your adrenaline has reached a peak you have never experienced before or that you won't be faced with multiple assailants. Many seasoned, well-trained and cool-thinking cops have fired many more shots during a gunfight than "necessary" due to their elevated stress levels, poorly-lit environment, moving "target(s)", etc. It is worth remembering that no one has ever complained about having too many bullets on board during a gunfight. The reverse is not true.
All that said, I believe a Ruger LCP (or its ilk) has a definite place in one's ccw "wardrobe".
(1) It is always a mistake to try to "catagorize" an offender. Criminals can be smart or stupid and everything in-between. Those of you who think there's no difference between a drug-crazed individual and a sober one in terms of possessing a rational thought process (everything else being "equal") simply haven't dealt with enough of them. It doesn't take rational thought to rob someone and it requires irrational thought to resist arrest when faced with overwhelming odds.
(2) Never count on the mere display of a firearm to scare off a determined criminal. Yes, it might happen but do not count on it. Anytime you brandish a weapon against another person it had better be for a legitimate reason (in most states that means you have good reason to fear for the loss of your life or limb or that of an innocent other). And if you have a legitimate reason for pulling a gun on someone you must be prepared to kill him.
(3) Killing a person might not stop a criminal from slaying or maiming you (doesn't do you much good if he later expires in a hospital after leaving you dead at the scene) and stopping a bg from committing his crime may not require killing him. This seeming paradox is the reason it is important to bring a man-stopping caliber/cartridge to the fray if at all practical when your very life is at stake. Many-and I am one-believe that the minimum requirement needed to reliably stop a man in his tracks or to keep him from taking very many steps is a .357 Magnum "and up". This isn't to say that a lesser caliber should not be considered. Climate, social circumstance and other factors may dictate toting a .380/.32 ACP or some such as opposed to having nothing but a set of keys to defend yourself with.
(4) Finally, don't kid yourself. Having more ammo than needed is a far better scenario than not having enough. Simply being a good shot or having completed a firearm self-defense course is no guarantee that you won't expend more ammunition than is "needed" on a single individual during the heat of the battle when your adrenaline has reached a peak you have never experienced before or that you won't be faced with multiple assailants. Many seasoned, well-trained and cool-thinking cops have fired many more shots during a gunfight than "necessary" due to their elevated stress levels, poorly-lit environment, moving "target(s)", etc. It is worth remembering that no one has ever complained about having too many bullets on board during a gunfight. The reverse is not true.
All that said, I believe a Ruger LCP (or its ilk) has a definite place in one's ccw "wardrobe".
Why a .380 ?
I have a Sig P-232 in .380 and I love it. It's very accurate and reliable, it doesn't jam. It can be used double or single action, plus it's a good looking gun. There's lots of .380 ammo available, it's easy to pick the kind that fits your needs. It's not light and i've never carried it concealed, I use it for home protection and I don't feel under gunned or worry about bullet over penetration in my home.
I have a Sig P-232 in .380 and I love it. It's very accurate and reliable, it doesn't jam. It can be used double or single action, plus it's a good looking gun. There's lots of .380 ammo available, it's easy to pick the kind that fits your needs. It's not light and i've never carried it concealed, I use it for home protection and I don't feel under gunned or worry about bullet over penetration in my home.