Why????????????? (30-378 for deer hunting)

Numbers

Roy,

I do not think it is the ballistic numbers, I think its the sexy caliber names i.e. Remington Ultra Mag, Winchester Short Mag anything with magnum sells to these kind of people.

To be honest most of the guys I know who use magnum cartridge do not have a clues want the ballistic numbers mean. All they know is someone told them they could knock a deer off its feet at 500yds. with some magnum cartridge.
 
"...Do other parts of the country have this same thing going on?..." It's not just Stateside. It goes on here too. Isn't marketing grand? The marketing types have got a lot of new and not so new hunters convinced they need the biggest meanest calibre going and a synthetic stock for everything. Heavy recoil combined with a light rifle adds up to a painful flinch and lost game.
"....30-30 will kill deer with a lot less recoil..." Ever shoot a Win 94? The .30-30 out of a 6 lb rifle isn't exactly light in the felt recoil department.
"...shot a cat with a howitzer..." They were used on Tigers and Panthers at one time. Does that count?
 
I agree the magnumitis is everywhere (including living well inside me). last year I hunted deer in NE Pa. with a 300 win Mag, why? well becuase A: i have neevr killed anything with it and B: I had loaned my 308 to my cousin and had run into scope problems with my 30-06, my 30 30 I use for woods and drive hunting. This year I have the scope problem fixed on my 06 I am planning on using my 270WSM for deer however just becuase I havent shot anything but woodchucks this summer with it. and ive shot more than a couple of deer with my 375HH i have found with the right bullet you cant tell the difference between deer shot with that and deer shot with my 243. there is very little meat damage and the look on gys faces when u show them the shell is priceless. but if i had to choose one deer rifle it would be my 308. ive shot that rifle since i was little and because it was my father's only deer rifle and i have alot of sentiment for it.
 
Ha Ha Ha,

A 22short will kill whitetail, why don't we just all use the 22short?

No recoil, no wasted meat. Any 'REAL' hunter should be able to stalk within 10 yards of any whitetail on the planet and shoot him between the eyes!

We all hunt in exactly the same conditions and since I don't 'think' I need a magnum, then nobody else 'needs' one!

<sarcasm off ;) >

OK, some of you MAY need a 22lr or 22mag if you're hunting in the wind!

<OK, Sarcasm really off :rolleyes: >

You don't have to use 22's, you can use the omnipotent .308. Because, all the best long range and bench rest shooters for years have proven that its the best. And I believe them! It'll kill anything on the planet!

Not much recoil, no wasted meat and Any 'REAL' hunter should be able to stalk within 100 yards of any animal on the planet and shoot him in the vitals!

<I think this Sarcasm switch is stuck! :D >

What about those of us that hunt where the typical shot is 300yds or more and the wind is always blowing!

Well then, if thats the case, YOU are allowed to use a Magnum.
But don't use it because you like it.
Don't use it because it is MORE lethal.
Don't use it because it shoots flatter.
Don't use it because you like to use it on all your hunts.

And for Heavens sake, DON'T LET ANYONE ON A FORUM KNOW THAT YOU USE A MAGNUM ON DEER!


<Sarcasm switch off>


200gr wildcat RBBT ULD bullet + Ballistic Coef >.9 +3300fps + .4 MOA rifle + Custom gunsmithing + expert marksman behind the trigger = "MY DREAM DEER RIFLE"

AJ

"If some is good, and more is better, then too much is JUST RIGHT!"

"Pursuit of happiness is a good reason for a lot of things!"
 
If you shoot the weapon well you can use whatever gun you want.

I hunt whitetails with a 7STW and routinely shoot them past 400. When winds are light and variable I can hit an 8 inch gong at 550 all day. I also take out the old .35 remington for does just because I like to shoot irons......

Different tools for different hunting......but it's all hunting. Stop the hate. Everybody group hug.........
 
Of course you need a .30-.378 to kill a whitetail deer weighing less than 100 pounds. And you need a 20mm cannon to kill an elk. It's just rumor that all those deer and elk were killed by puny .30-06's, .308's, .30-30's, 7 mm's, .270's, .257's, .243 and 6mm's, etc. before the mighty .30/.378 came along to protect us from such behemoth deer. :rolleyes:
Actually, as long as the cartridge/gun is adequate, it is each person's choice as to the weapon and ammunition used. Some choices just do border on the excessive and thus the good natured ribbing as seen here. Go for it!

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
Here is your answer - Why use a 30-378 for deer.

Lets compare the .308, 30-06 and 30-378 using a 190gr Hornady BTSP with a BC of .491. Hornady recommends this round for a muzzle velocity range of 2200-3300, so this is a great bullet to use for comparison.

Muzzle velocity
.308 2000-2400 fps
.30-06 2200-2700 fps
30-378 2700-3200 fps

200yds
.308 1715-2080 fps
.30-06 1895-2350 fps
30-378 2350-2818 fps

400yds
.308 1462-1787
.30-06 1622-2041
30-378 2041-2467

600yds
.308 1254-1525
.30-06 1383-1751
30-378 1751-2142

So, if using a .308 from the muzzle to 200yds is reasonable, then using a .30-06 from 200yds-400yds is EXACTLY the same lethality. And using a 30-378 from 400yds to 600yds has EXACTLY the same lethality. (assuming the same shot location)

Notice that the energy the 30-378 has at 600yds is less than the muzzle of a .308.


Using a 250yd zero, a 30-378 has 17" less drop at 400yds, and 66" less drop at 600yds than a 308, hmmm?

FWIW, my new deer rifle will have 12" less drop at 600yds than the 30-378!

What would be your choice if you where sitting on the edge of a 400 acre beanfield?

So the answer is: Because the hunter wants to use a round that is accurate, lethal and appropriate to the situation.

AJ
 
Of course you need a 190 gr .30 caliber bullet to kill a little white tail deer. Those puny 150, 165 grain bullets just bounce off deer and have for years. :rolleyes: Hey, we're just having some good natured fun. Good luck with your hunting.

AJ,
I don't think your 'sarcasm off' switch is working. :rolleyes:

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
LHB1, Yeah I know, I need to lubricate that switch ;)

I could have used any of the bullets for comparison, and it would have shown very similar results.

I've used all types of firearms for whitetails (.357, 50cal Muzzle loader, 12ga, .243, 7mm mag), several different ones for Muleys (30-30,.243, .270, 7mm mag) , 7mm for Elk.

My default go in the woods rifle is a 7mm Rem Mag. I've shot Muley's from 7yds to 820yds with that rifle (both one shot kills) and almost every distance in between. Same with Whitetails and Elk. When I know the range will be close (150yds or less) and its REALLY cold (so I will be wearing HEAVY clothing), I'll use my .243 with the short stock (it fits better then). When I'm hunting in a swamp only, I'll grab a handgun or shotgun.

But my default go in the woods rifle is still the 7mm Rem Mag. Why? Because I have found (after 3-4 dozen big game animals), that it is appropriate, capable and efficient.

I even have different loads for the 7mm mag, for use in tight quarters (low velocity 139gr bullet). This load turns the 7mm into a less than .308 w/re to muzzle energy! But normally I use the 162gr at 3000fps+ ;)


Good luck with your hunting too!

AJ
 
Aj

So, if using a .308 from the muzzle to 200yds is reasonable, then using a .30-06 from 200yds-400yds is EXACTLY the same lethality. And using a 30-378 from 400yds to 600yds has EXACTLY the same lethality
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I think you just proved what we have been discussing. Out to 200yds anything more than a .308 is excessive. The higher velocity rounds give you no advance under 200 yds..

The reason I use 200yds is because I have seen data for NC where over 98% of the deer taken with a rifle was under 200 yrd and a large percentage was under 150 yds. I have heard that the national numbers are similar.

Here in NC if you have 400 - 600 acre field there will at lease two stands positioned to allow safe zone of fire from both stands.

I did not know the land you hunt but here in NC, 400 - 600 yd shots are rare.

But if you enjoy the bang and recoil of your 30-378 then go for it. :D But under 200yds its excessive for deer. :)

I think the original point of the thread was if the majority of people who use big guns would just back it down a little they would be better shots.
 
What would be your choice if you where sitting on the edge of a 400 acre beanfield?
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I'd use the .308 Winchester :D.

Why? Because to make that 400 yard shot, I'll need to have practiced -- and I mean a lot of practice. The recoil from the .308 is not too bad, which means I can shoot comfortably at the range and practice a lot for those long shots. Lethal enough? I think the .308 will do just fine, even at 400 yards.
But as a practical matter, I doubt that I would take the 400 yard shot with any caliber. To me, 400 yards is a really long shot, and I would probably pass it up and hope that the deer (or other deer in the area) would move in closer.

Using a 250yd zero, a 30-378 has 17" less drop at 400yds, and 66" less drop at 600yds than a 308
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I was not able to find a trajectory table for a .30-378 on Hornady's website. I'd like to see the numbers for both calibers at 400 yards.

That .30-378 does sound like a hella-strong round! If you can shoot it well, use it!
 
The reason I use 200yds is because I have seen data for NC where over 98% of the deer taken with a rifle was under 200 yrd and a large percentage was under 150 yds. I have heard that the national numbers are similar.
Click to expand...

I agree. Regardless of what round you use, if the bullet completely passes through the animal, you 'wasted' extra energy on the backstop. When I shoot a whitetail in the head at 70 yds, it really doesn't matter if I use a 7mm mag, .243, 30-30 etc.

Thats the point. for close range, the heavy gun is just as good as a light gun (it just 'wastes' a little more energy on the backstop). For long distance, the heavy gun is Superior to the light gun.

Regardless of the firearm, the hunter has the responsibility to shoot it well.

If hunters had to pass 'my' test to get a license, there would be a LOT less hunters out there (regardless of which gun they were using).

Do you disagree with any of the following?

1) The caliber is SIGNIFICANTLY less important than the skill of the shooter.

2) The caliber required is dependent more on the situation (range, wind, cover, backstop) than on the animal.

3) TOO MUCH gun is usually better than TOO LITTLE. (w/re to morally harvesting a game animal)

??

AJ
 
Fremmer wrote:
What would be your choice if you where sitting on the edge of a 400 acre beanfield?
Click to expand...
I'd use the .308 Winchester .

Why? Because to make that 400 yard shot, I'll need to have practiced -- and I mean a lot of practice. The recoil from the .308 is not too bad, which means I can shoot comfortably at the range and practice a lot for those long shots. Lethal enough? I think the .308 will do just fine, even at 400 yards.
But as a practical matter, I doubt that I would take the 400 yard shot with any caliber. To me, 400 yards is a really long shot, and I would probably pass it up and hope that the deer (or other deer in the area) would move in closer.
Click to expand...

A 400 acre beanfield will present shots of 1000yds.

I was not able to find a trajectory table for a .30-378 on Hornady's website. I'd like to see the numbers for both calibers at 400 yards.
Click to expand...

I used a ballistic program to get the numbers.
400yds
.308 1462-1787 fps --- Muzzle velocity = 2000-2400fps
.30-06 1622-2041 fps --- Muzzle velocity = 2200-2700fps
30-378 2041-2467 fps --- Muzzle velocity = 2700-3200fps

At 400 yds with a 250yd zero
.308 w/ 2400fps muzzle will drop 23.98"
30-06 w/2700fps muzzle will drop 18.5"
30-378 w/3200fps muzzle will drop 12.5"

But at 100 yds,
.308 2400fps will be 4.5" high so you'd probably sight in at shorter distance.
30-06 2700fps will be 3.3" high
30-378 3200fps will be only 2.1" high

So even up close, the flatter firearm will help you make hard shots (ie. small openings etc.).


That .30-378 does sound like a hella-strong round! If you can shoot it well, use it!
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It is, I like the 7mm wildcats better and I don't have a 30-378. Its a great Long Range cartridge. Not the best IMHO, but very good.

Hope that is what you where looking for.

AJ
 
That was the info I was looking for. It sounds like an interesting round. It would probably rip my shoulder off, but I still wouldn't pass up an opportunity to try it out! :)

Let me know if you ever want a huntin' buddy. I'll shoot the close-range deer, and you can snipe 'em way out! :D It would probably be a pretty good system.

P.S. You outta try the .257 Weatherby Mag. Talk about flat shootin'! Only disadvantage would be that its not as heavy as that .30-378 round, so the wind would move it a bit more on those really long shots.
 
1) The caliber is SIGNIFICANTLY less important than the skill of the shooter.
Click to expand...
Shot placement is everything

2) The caliber required is dependent more on the situation (range, wind, cover, backstop) than on the animal.
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I think knowledge of the game being pursued dedicates the minimum caliber required for clean kills. Environment being hunted will dedicate an adjustment to the caliber required, i.e. hunting deer in a peanut field on a clam day with a .243 , a 200yrd shot is fine but if the wind is blowing 5 - 10 mph a bigger , heavier bullet is required ( maybe 30-378). ;)

On the other hand no matter how calm, I would not ( intentionally) use a .243 on a bear.

3) TOO MUCH gun is usually better than TOO LITTLE. (w/re to morally harvesting a game animal)
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Kinda goes back to #2 if you have knowledge of the game your hunting, you should not have too little gun.

No matter what caliber or what game your hunting there are bad shots and it takes knowledge/maturity or what ever you want to call it, to known when to shot and when not:)
 
had a guy stop by the shop last weekend, i've known the guy a long time, never knew he was interested in guns. he wants to start hunting moose and bear and other big critters, and is dead set on a .375 ultra mag.

first question in my mind: what can that do that the .338 winmag cant? or .300 winmag? or even .375h&h? not to mention that was the questions WA and everyone else in the shop wanted answered as well?

but the guys deadset on it, read a lot of material about it, and he has a lot of 'head knowledge' about various loads for it. we'll order the gun for him, its his money.
 
not 'new', but a novice to shooting hunting rifles. he was enlisted fresh out of high school (forget which branch), and he was trained as a m60 gunner.

he did hem and haw about putting a muzzle brake on the .375ultra mag. the guy is a freaking monster, i wonder if he thinks his build will handle the recoil unbraked?
 
Try These Numbers

So, some of you are into numbers and ballistics. Here are some numbers for you to consider.

1330, 1168, 1055, 977

Those velocity figures are for muzzle, 100, 200, and 300 yards. Pretty wimpy numbers. They hardly even compare to a .308 Winchester let alone any of the .300 Super Duper Magnums.

Those numbers are blackpowder velocities for the .45-70. According to some folks, it would make this round worthless for deer. Yet, these numbers are for a cartridge that was used to drop animals that were in the one ton weight range. That would be the Bison. I guess some folks must be running into 3,000 pound deer.
 
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