Who sets transfer fees?

[Gunplummer]

Yeah!

 

[Theohazard]

Tennessee Arms are having their empty AR lowers on sale for $35 each w/ free shipping. I didn't want to pass up the sale, so I bought 9. The shop I sent them too is charging me $20 per lower. If they were fully assembled guns, I'd understand. But damn near $200 for a single box of parts (I know each part is the technical gun, but they're still just parts) is BS.

You still transferred 9 firearms. It doesn't matter if you feel they're just "parts", the FFL still has to treat each one as a firearm because that's what it is. And $20 per firearm is a reasonable price in most areas, and a darn good price in some.

The purpose I made this post is I feel pretty cheated from a recent transfer and wanted to double check my facts before blasting them on Google/Yelp.

Why in the world are you going to "blast" them on Google or Yelp? You solicited their services and now you're upset that they charged you for those services? Are you being serious here? If you're surprised by the pricing then it's your own fault for not contacting them before you had your firearms shipped there.

Complaints like this one is why Yelp is so terrible. I've seen people leave bad Yelp reviews for the most ridiculous things, like getting upset because they asked for a gun that doesn't exist and the store didn't have it. Guess what: If you feel a shop's transfer fee is too high, don't transfer guns though them. It's that easy.

 

[Theohazard]

Okay, my buddy is not very savvy on computers, and found a firearm that he has been looking for. Not only is he not confident on computers, he has never placed a bid on EBay. He mentioned this to an FFL dealer that he has done some work for and the dealer offered to help him out by bidding on it. It was the dealer who bid and paid for the item and shipping. It was the dealers purchase and kept it to "sell' it to my buddy. It was the dealers firearm till he sold it to my buddy for all actual expenses. That was fine except he also charged him $25.00 for the transfer and that was not expected. .....

Again, in Iowa the cost of the FFL transfer is included in the purchase price.

It's my buddy's complaint and I agree .....

Let me get this straight: The dealer bought a gun on Gunbroker, and you and your buddy expect him to sell it for the exact amount he paid for it and nothing more? You honestly expect the dealer to work for free? Should every shop sell all their products for the exact amount they paid for them? You expect shops to never make any kind of profit? Either I'm missing something here or you and your buddy don't understand how retail works...

 

[JoeSixpack]

1.When a customer calls or emails me to begin a transfer.....I take the call or answer his email.

I just tell my FFL what's headed there way, I don't even need a reply.
"Hey heads up colt 1911 headed your way from blah blah"
Ok let me bump up your work time by 1min for reading the email or taking a call.. not that it really matters if you do or not as the paper work that comes with the gun will have my contact info on it anyway.

My current guy never returns emails.. I don't even care.. I just call them up once I see it's delivered and be like.. hey you logged blah blah yet.. ok so when's a good time to come over? now? ok see ya in 20mins *click*

2. I email the seller a copy of my FFL with shipping instructions.

Ok I'll give this one to you.. you'll have to email a copy of your license assuming you've never had a shipment from that FFL before..
Usually only needs to be done once per license cycle as most dealers online keep them on file.. CDNN needed neither of the last 2 FFL's I used before my current guy.. already on file.. ok bump it up to another 2 min... after all I'd hope you'd have a canned email ready for this situation or I'll give you 5mins credit if you're the type of person that does it by scratch every time and writes out detailed instructions via google maps on how to get to their location.

3. When the gun arrives I unpack it, dispose of the box, bubble wrap and packing peanuts.

Well that is a might difficult job.. you might have to use a box cutter or something so I'll throw in some hazard pay.
Ok another 3mins.

P.S if you have difficulty with the disposal of such materials then make the customer haul it off.. my old FFL did.. I have no problem with that.
Just more protection for my gun while I transport it home.

4. I log the manufacturer, model, serial#, type and caliber.

Ya I already mentioned this so no credit for this one.

5. I log the name and address of the shipper (and often I have to do detective work to find out who actually shipped the gun and who is the transferee)

Ok now this one Im a bit fuzzy on.. I thought all guns shipped between FFL's had to have some paper work accompanying it, I almost wanna say they need to provide their own FFL license info in return.. but I don't know for sure to make an argument here.

I'll just say it does not "seem" right to me that you can ship a gun to a FFL with absolutely no documentation as to who it's for or who sent it.. anyone could come in claiming they have a gun coming.. I've never been asked to show a invoice of my own for proof of payment.

I dunno can you even ship a gun without a return address at the very least?
either way Im not touching this one.

6. I notify the customer that his firearm has arrived.

Very kind of you sir, but I have a tracking number, I already know when it's delivered.

ALL OF THAT OCCURS BEFORE THE CUSTOMER EVER SETS FOOT IN MY PREMISES!!!!!!!

"Ten minutes of work"????? Unbelievable.

I said 10 + what ever time you need with your bound book..
60-80 breaks down to 15-20 mins per transfer (@$20 which is the most im willing to pay for a transfer)
I didn't think I had to detail every little thing like opening a box, finding a pen, turning on the lights, food and drink while you wait on the delivery, signing for the delivery.. blah blah blah.

seriously how long does it take you to complete a transfer?? an hour?
No no let's be fair you tell me how long it takes you.. would 30mins be fair? I mean if we add up all the little itty bitty parts in the process would 30mins be about right?

ok so I guess that means you could do 2 transfers in 1 hour.. that's 40 bucks, hardly bad money for what is just procedural tasks with no investment in the product you're transferring.
Most of what you listed that I callously left out can be done when the shop is empty anyway.

How many people here are better at math than you?

I dunno but it sounds worthy of another thread and a poll to find out.. you're just the person to get to the bottom of this matter I can see that.

How many people here understand that there are more expenses to running a business than the face time with the customer?

How many people here get free alarm systems, free safes, free electricity, free office supplies, free rent and free insurance on firearms? That stuff ain't free and you should know that.

NO B&M Gun shop should be depending on transfers to keep the lights on, if you are then you're SERIOUSLY in trouble!

Granted, you don't really know jack squat about anything to do with FFL transfers.

How's that? because I left out such trivial things as emailing your license to the sending FFL if it's not already on file? opening and disposing of a shipping box?
I guess my mind can not grasp the complexities of such things.

 

[44 AMP]

FFLs get to charge what they think is a reasonable fee for their time, knowledge, and the use of their professional license. How much do you charge for your time/knowledge/skills?

Here's the main point, how much do you charge for what you do??? NOT just what the customer SEES you do??

You only SEE the FFL do a little work, and you think its only worth $20 and you're getting ripped off if he charges more. Maybe you know jacksquat about what he does that you don't see, maybe you don't, it DOES NOT MATTER. His rate is his rate. Not happy? go elsewhere and see if you can get a better deal.

Had any dealings with a doctor, a lawyer, a mechanic or other professional people in the recent century???

A doctor can charge you what ever they want for an office visit that takes 10 minutes of HIS time (and 50 of yours).

A lawyer can charge you hundreds of dollars for a letter that takes him 5 minutes to dictate.

I went to a small engine repair shop the other day, to see about some work on a lawnmower. SHOP RATE = $60/hr 1hr min.

IF you feel you're being overcharged, remember the story about the guy with the fantastic widget machine.

Totally automated factory, had a fantastic machine that made the world's best widgets. One day, it stops running. He calls the repairman.

Repairman arrives, looks things over, pushes one button, the machine starts running again. Yay! Owner is happy, until the repairman hands him the bill for $1000.

The owner flips out, yells, stomps around, throws a hissy fit $1000 for pushing a button! This is barking stupid, I'm not paying that!!!

Ok, the repairman says. You're right, $1000 for pushing a button is too much. Here's my revised bill.

Hands new bill to the owner. It says:

Pushing one button: $1
KNOWING WHAT BUTTON TO PUSH: $999

Have a nice day!

Or, if you prefer, just go by the old saying "gunfighters don't charge by the bullet".

 

[Gunplummer]

One cannot be an idiot and have an FFL. Did you miss the part where I said the selling DEALER sent the rifle to ME? I have corrected Dealers more than once that had written down a model number instead of the serial number. Same thing with a mismatched bolt number instead of the serial number. Many of the guns on online auctions are sold by people with no FFL. The Dealer I use will accept them, but wants a copy of the sellers drivers license. I email this to the seller, but the Dealer still gets one now and then with nothing at all attached. It is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[UncleEd]

It seems to me that under the 2nd Amendment it is our right to have FFLs who do our bidding and keep their tiny greedy hands in their pockets. It's our right.
So, you FFLs, got that, bubs?

P.S.: How about dealers making home deliveries? Ought to be part of the service provided under the FFL. And while they are at it, stop off and pick up
a pizza as part of their service package to the customer.

 

[dogtown tom]

UncleEd It seems to me that under the 2nd Amendment it is our right to have FFLs who do our bidding and keep their tiny greedy hands in their pockets. It's our right.
So, you FFLs, got that, bubs?

I've read that three times and have no idea what you are trying to say.

As an FFL I would love to see the repeal of the GCA '68 that created the Federal Firearms License.

P.S.: How about dealers making home deliveries? Ought to be part of the service provided under the FFL. And while they are at it, stop off and pick up a pizza as part of their service package to the customer.

More than one newbie FFL has asked that same question. Unfortunately, Federal law/ATF regulations prohibit dealers from conducting business at anyplace other than their licensed premises or a gunshow/special event.

§478.50 Locations covered by license.

The license covers the class of business or the activity specified in the license at the address specified therein. A separate license must be obtained for each location at which a firearms or ammunition business or activity requiring a license under this part is conducted except:

(a) No license is required to cover a separate warehouse used by the licensee solely for storage of firearms or ammunition if the records required by this part are maintained at the licensed premises served by such warehouse;

(b) A licensed collector may acquire curios and relics at any location, and dispose of curios or relics to any licensee or to other persons who are residents of the State where the collector's license is held and the disposition is made;

(c) A licensee may conduct business at a gun show pursuant to the provision of §478.100; or

(d) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic firearms with another licensee at any location pursuant to the provisions of §478.100.

[T.D. ATF-191, 49 FR 46890, Nov. 29, 1984, as amended by T.D. ATF-401, 63 FR 35523, June 30, 1998]

Further, ATF regs prohibit dealers from conducting business from a wheeled

§478.100 Conduct of business away from licensed premises.

(a)(1) A licensee may conduct business temporarily at a gun show or event as defined in paragraph (b) if the gun show or event is located in the same State specified on the license: Provided, That such business shall not be conducted from any motorized or towed vehicle. The premises of the gun show or event at which the licensee conducts business shall be considered part of the licensed premises. Accordingly, no separate fee or license is required for the gun show or event locations. However, licensees shall comply with the provisions of §478.91 relating to posting of licenses (or a copy thereof) while conducting business at the gun show or event.

(2) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic firearms with another licensee at any location.

(b) A gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community.

(c) Licensees conducting business at locations other than the premises specified on their license under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall maintain firearms records in the form and manner prescribed by subpart H of this part. In addition, records of firearms transactions conducted at such locations shall include the location of the sale or other disposition, be entered in the acquisition and disposition records of the licensee, and retained on the premises specified on the license.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10498, Mar. 31, 1988, as amended by T.D. ATF-401, 63 FR 35523, June 30, 1998]

 

[JohnKSa]

It was the dealers purchase and kept it to "sell' it to my buddy. It was the dealers firearm till he sold it to my buddy for all actual expenses. That was fine except he also charged him $25.00 for the transfer and that was not expected.

Sounds like he did him a favor.

There are two options when a dealer transfers a gun to a person.

1. Dealer buys the gun from a wholesaler/distributor adds profit and sales tax to his purchase price, sells it to a retail purchaser and performs the transfer to the retail purchaser.

2. Dealer accepts the delivery of a gun already purchased/owned by the retail purchaser, adds a transfer fee (and possibly sales/use tax) and then transfers it to the retail purchaser.

Unless the gun was very inexpensive, the profit plus sales tax would almost certainly be higher than a $25 transfer fee.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

JoeSixPack-
It's painfully obvious that you have never run a business.
What makes you think that you know what someone should charge for their services? Do you go to work and not expect a paycheck?
People like you are a nightmare for any businessman. No one owes you anything.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Or does it cost them nothing to do (except for 20min of their time) and is all profit?

It may be all "profit" -- if all their other business costs and expenses for that month have been taken care of by other transactions. Remember, profit is what's left after all the bills have been paid. But, what's that 20 minutes of time worth? That's 20 minutes of time that won't be devoted to other aspects of running the business.

In round numbers, a typical 40-hour per week worker works 2000 hours per year. Most business consultants estimate that 50% of those 40 hours is actual productive work, so 1000 hours on income-producing work, and the other 1000 hours on overhead.

What's a fair annual income for an FFL to you? Does $75,000 a year sound fair? That's $75 per productive hour of work. So 20 minutes is worth $25, minimum. And that's only considering the contribution to actual take-home income. It doesn't include anything for paying rent, utilities, taxes, licensing fees, or any other expenses associated with conducting a business.

 

[peggysue]

I live in Iowa . My FFL charges (a PAWN SHOP) only a $10 fee.
M&M PAWNBROKERS, DAVENPORT IA. WHEN I BUY FROM SAY GB, BUDS OR GRAB A GUN
THE ATF IS NOT CALLED BECAUSE I HAVE A CCW IN MY STATE. (SEE STATE LAW.)
IF THE GUN IS BOUGHT OUT OF THE STATE OF IOWA THERE IS NO STATE TAX.
SHOP AROUND.

FIREARMS CAN NOT BE SOLD ON EBAY

 

[Ramey]

This has been going on since the beginning of time. Buyer vs seller. The buyer is trying to spend the least on the transaction the seller is trying to get the most out it. Point blank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[44 AMP]

This has been going on since the beginning of time. Buyer vs seller.

This is kind of a yes and no thing. Yes in the sense that buyer vs. seller each seeking the best deal for themselves has been going on since the beginning of time (barter).

No, in the sense that firearms transfer fees only came about after the government mandated (made it law) that transfers had to go through a licensed dealer. The requirement did not exist before 1968. The GCA 68 created the requirement for licensed dealers, and for some transfers to go through them. Later (more recent) Federal and state laws have expanded on what transfers are required to use an FFL. There are still some places in the country where some types of transfer are not required to use an FFL.

If an FFL's services are required by law, then brother you ARE going to pay him for doing it, because the state and federal governments aren't.