Who sets transfer fees?
- Thread starter TrueBlue711
- Start date
Around here, the transfer fee is $35. I paid it just a couple of weeks ago.
Expecting to pay a lower transfer fee for a lower than a complete gun is not realistic. The FFL performs the same service either way and is justified in charging the same fee.
Pahoo, I am trying to understand your complaint. The buyer for some reason did not want to bid on GunBroker himself, and had the gun shop do it? Why? Did the gun shop say they were not going to charge a transfer if they did it that way? If all the buyer gives the gun shop is reimbursement for the cost of the gun plus sales tax, the reimbursement goes to GB and the sales tax goes to the state, and the gun shop works for free. It doesn't matter what state you are in, that is not the way to keep your doors open.
Expecting to pay a lower transfer fee for a lower than a complete gun is not realistic. The FFL performs the same service either way and is justified in charging the same fee.
Pahoo, I am trying to understand your complaint. The buyer for some reason did not want to bid on GunBroker himself, and had the gun shop do it? Why? Did the gun shop say they were not going to charge a transfer if they did it that way? If all the buyer gives the gun shop is reimbursement for the cost of the gun plus sales tax, the reimbursement goes to GB and the sales tax goes to the state, and the gun shop works for free. It doesn't matter what state you are in, that is not the way to keep your doors open.
One last time !!!
Again, in Iowa the cost of the FFL transfer is included in the purchase price.
It's my buddy's complaint and I agree .....
Be Safe !!!
Okay, my buddy is not very savvy on computers, and found a firearm that he has been looking for. Not only is he not confident on computers, he has never placed a bid on EBay. He mentioned this to an FFL dealer that he has done some work for and the dealer offered to help him out by bidding on it. It was the dealer who bid and paid for the item and shipping. It was the dealers purchase and kept it to "sell' it to my buddy. It was the dealers firearm till he sold it to my buddy for all actual expenses. That was fine except he also charged him $25.00 for the transfer and that was not expected. .....
Again, in Iowa the cost of the FFL transfer is included in the purchase price.
It's my buddy's complaint and I agree .....
Be Safe !!!
You are sadly off the wall; so your FFL is supposed to work for FREE? He buys the gun, sells it to your buddy for what he pays for it (collects the sales tax) and isn't supposed to make a profit - even a mere $25? You are delusional.
Tell your nerd buddy to buy his own gun , pay for shipping and have it transferred to his FFL and pay the fee - see how long he complains
Better yet, tell him to go to wok and give the company a few hours of work for free - see if he whines then....you guys are amazing..........
Tell your nerd buddy to buy his own gun , pay for shipping and have it transferred to his FFL and pay the fee - see how long he complains
Better yet, tell him to go to wok and give the company a few hours of work for free - see if he whines then....you guys are amazing..........
FrankenMauser
New member
The transfer fee is absolutely expected, and par for the course.
FFLs don't buy and sell firearms to be good neighbors. They do it for profit.
Without the transfer fee, he would have sunk time into the item, with no return. (Literally costing him money to buy and resell the handgun, rather than at least paying for the trouble, or even making a very small profit.)
Aguila Blanca
Staff
And I think the rest of the universe disagrees.Pahoo said:
When an FFL buys a firearm from a distributor or takes it in as a trade-in, he resells it for a profit that's enough to compensate him for the amount of time he expends in doing the paperwork. When an FFL works a Gunbroker auction on behalf of a customer and then sells the gun to the customer with NO markup on the gun or the shipping -- where's he supposed to make his living if you don't even want him to charge a minimal $20 for a transfer fee?
IMHO you (and your friend) are incredibly unrealistic in your expectations. I just went through the same transaction with an FFL in the next town to where I live. I have a Gunbroker account and I could have bid it myself but, for reasons which don't concern anyone here, on this occasion I chose not to. I watched the auction, I texted my FFL 20 minutes before closing, he put in the winning bid, and I sat back to wait until he notified me that it had arrived.
So not only did he place the bid for me, he also dipped into his own pocket to make the purchase. He used his fax machine to send his FFL to the FFL on the selling end. When the gun arrived, he had to enter it into his bound book -- just the same as he would if he had bought a new gun from a distributor.
For all that he charged me a transfer fee of $30 -- which was less than his usual charge, but he gave me a break because I also gave him a possibly nice pistol to sell on consignment. I have no complaint about paying the transfer fee. I expected to pay it -- in fact, I expected it to be $50, which is the going rate around these parts. I honestly don't see how you or your friend could possibly expect the FFL to NOT charge a transfer fee. I also don't see how you can possibly not understand the difference between this transfer, where there was NO profit on the gun, and a gun he has in stock that has a profit margin of between 30 and 50 percent.
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You should have to pay the FFL for his time and effort. You can go to a retail store (Cabela's etc.) and you will still pay for the time and effort to make the call, and check the 4473.
My brother in law was a assistant manager at a Wal-Mart Superstore. He had worked for them for a mere 34 years. He signed off on a 4473 that had a mistake/error that he didn't catch. He was fired on the spot...
So that guy that takes your 4473 is literally putting his lively hood at risk. $20 is an absolute bargain.
My brother in law was a assistant manager at a Wal-Mart Superstore. He had worked for them for a mere 34 years. He signed off on a 4473 that had a mistake/error that he didn't catch. He was fired on the spot...
So that guy that takes your 4473 is literally putting his lively hood at risk. $20 is an absolute bargain.
FFLs get to charge what they think is a reasonable fee for their time, knowledge, and the use of their professional license. How much do you charge for your time/knowledge/skills? Many FFL holders are not part of a larger "corporate entity", and as such they are not paid by the hour. They make their money by selling guns, they buy at wholesale and mark the item up. If there is no mark-up, as when doing a transfer, there is no incentive for the FFL holder to do the work and use his skill and knowledge to transfer a firearm to you, so he charges what he might have made in profit. Getting paid for doing work is required by law, otherwise it is slavery. So, you want the gun, you pay what that person thinks his time and effort are worth. You want cheaper? Go to the cut-rate guys who think $25 for the job is enough. Or the $10 guy. But if you want to be able to buy gun supplies in your area, I suggest you support the local FFLs.
It's not your FFL, you don't get to determine what the fair price is.
JoeSixpack
New member
I dunno.. Im gonna back them up on this.. 20 is fair.
And yeah he can decide whats fair.. with his wallet, It's not a one way street.
Let me tell you it takes very little time to actually earn that 20 bucks.
I've overheard phone calls to NICS line.. the conversation is like 3mins.. round it up to 5 to be generious.
Lets say it took me another 5 mins to fill out the form.
That's 10mins of work plus what ever time they need to make their bound book entries.
How many people here are making 60-80 dollars an hour?
Granted I don't know any FFL's doing transfers round the clock like that but that's what it breaks down to.
As far as supporting LGS? Every single actual gun shop that I've checked into for transfers are at least 35, and I love how some charge different prices based on if it's a long gun or hand gun.
Let's also address the fact that if
1. The LGS had the gun I wanted
and
2. At a price I was willing to pay I wouldn't be shipping it in from online in the first place.
The guy I goto works out of his kitchen, It's not as nice as a shop setting but so what? Cut rate? not really.. I just need a FFL they're all equal in the eye's of the law which is all im trying to satisfy here.
Im not quite sure which direction the conversation has taken here.
I absolutely believe FFL's deserve to make a few bucks for their time on a transfer.
The FFL who actually bought the gun im assuming it was gun broker and not ebay as previously mentioned, went well above and beyond!
LGS where you're buying from THEM deserve NOTHING for their time doing paper work, the profit should already be baked into the price of the gun.
Gunplummer
New member
I read through the whole mess. I am not amazed at all. It is why I quit doing outside gun work years ago. My question is: Why don't you just get an FFL if it is all gravy? Some of you look at a gun shop like it is an hourly wage job without overhead. Ever look at the hourly rate sign in a car repair garage? I still buy and sell a lot of guns and some of the FFL holders my Dealer has to work with are morons. There is simply no other way to describe them. He (Dealer) has had to send a copy of his FFL by email, FAX, and finally giving up, by regular mail. One guy even sent the rifle to ME. Stop whining and get an FFL. Wonder how long you will charge $20?
JoeSixpack
New member
What is "outside gun work"? are you a FFL and you mean you no longer do transfers?
I thought about getting a FFL just for side cash.
I would probably just do transfers and maybe sell online thru gun broker or something.
Main problem is I have cats, some people are allergic so I have no good place for someone to come do paper work.
You're right B&M has overhead.. unfortunately the price still has to be something someone can live with.
I can't pay you 50 bucks just cause you got an electric bill and rent to pay.. no B&M shop should be depending on transfers to keep the lights on.
I'd ask you how much profit are yo making on a gun? do you think you should some reason make even more or equal on a transfer where you have zero money invested in the value of the gun?
Perhaps you can answer a question for me, If you have a FFL how does private collection vs inventory work?
Also I suppose this means the complete elimination of private sales..
EX: I could not privately sale a gun to my uncle if I have a FFL I would assume.. even if that gun was in my private collection.. if such a thing still exists once you have a FFL.
I mean if I was to order a gun using my FFL for my own collection how does such a thing even work.
I thought about getting a FFL just for side cash.
I would probably just do transfers and maybe sell online thru gun broker or something.
Main problem is I have cats, some people are allergic so I have no good place for someone to come do paper work.
You're right B&M has overhead.. unfortunately the price still has to be something someone can live with.
I can't pay you 50 bucks just cause you got an electric bill and rent to pay.. no B&M shop should be depending on transfers to keep the lights on.
I'd ask you how much profit are yo making on a gun? do you think you should some reason make even more or equal on a transfer where you have zero money invested in the value of the gun?
Perhaps you can answer a question for me, If you have a FFL how does private collection vs inventory work?
Also I suppose this means the complete elimination of private sales..
EX: I could not privately sale a gun to my uncle if I have a FFL I would assume.. even if that gun was in my private collection.. if such a thing still exists once you have a FFL.
I mean if I was to order a gun using my FFL for my own collection how does such a thing even work.
Gunplummer
New member
Outside gun work is repairing guns for other people. You have to have an FFL to do that. The only way you can legally do that with out an FFL is if the owner is standing there while you repair his gun. You cannot "Hold" guns for people. All repair guns in the racks have to be tagged. The whole system is kind of vague. I would think that what ever trade name you pick (Joe's guns) is inventory, and private transfers go in your name. Could be wrong there.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
FFLs I know keep their personal firearms at home, guns they buy and stock for resale are at the shops and in the shop's bound book. Doesn't matter if the resale guns are new or used, or from a collection they bought. The only exception is the guy who has a range and shop on the same premises. The rental guns are his personal guns, not in the bound book for the FFL business.
It's one thing to discuss how much of a fee is reasonable for doing a transfer, but to argue that an FFL should be expected to buy a gun through an auction, handle the exchange of FFLs, put out HIS money to have the gun shipped to him, enter it into his bound book, and then transfer it to a customer -- all for NO fee -- is just plain silly.
It's one thing to discuss how much of a fee is reasonable for doing a transfer, but to argue that an FFL should be expected to buy a gun through an auction, handle the exchange of FFLs, put out HIS money to have the gun shipped to him, enter it into his bound book, and then transfer it to a customer -- all for NO fee -- is just plain silly.
I'm not an FFL holder, so I don't know the current cost of the license, BUT I do remember the big screams that were heard when the CLINTON administration raised the FFL fee from $30 to $300. And I believe renewal are full cost.
The intent (though never officially stated) was to make dealing so expensive that the little guys would give it up. And, it worked. Somewhere between a third and half of FFL dealers disappeared within a couple years. The "kitchen table" guys, mostly.
Interestingly enough, my state has a law limiting the maximum FFL dealers can charge for background checks. It's part of the unworkable and unenforceable background check law passed by initiative a couple years ago. The law is so poorly written State agencies (including the state police) refused to enforce it, without specific direction on how to do so. Such direction is still awaiting..
The intent (though never officially stated) was to make dealing so expensive that the little guys would give it up. And, it worked. Somewhere between a third and half of FFL dealers disappeared within a couple years. The "kitchen table" guys, mostly.
Interestingly enough, my state has a law limiting the maximum FFL dealers can charge for background checks. It's part of the unworkable and unenforceable background check law passed by initiative a couple years ago. The law is so poorly written State agencies (including the state police) refused to enforce it, without specific direction on how to do so. Such direction is still awaiting..
dogtown tom
New member
You have given me my laugh of the day.
Do you really think that the FFL transfer fee only cover the time it takes you to fill out the 4473 and for the dealer to call in the NICS check?
Are you really that ignorant of what a dealer does?
1.When a customer calls or emails me to begin a transfer.....I take the call or answer his email.
2. I email the seller a copy of my FFL with shipping instructions.
3. When the gun arrives I unpack it, dispose of the box, bubble wrap and packing peanuts.
4. I log the manufacturer, model, serial#, type and caliber.
5. I log the name and address of the shipper (and often I have to do detective work to find out who actually shipped the gun and who is the transferee)
6. I notify the customer that his firearm has arrived.
ALL OF THAT OCCURS BEFORE THE CUSTOMER EVER SETS FOOT IN MY PREMISES!!!!!!!
"Ten minutes of work"????? Unbelievable.
How many people here are better at math than you?
How many people here understand that there are more expenses to running a business than the face time with the customer?
How many people here get free alarm systems, free safes, free electricity, free office supplies, free rent and free insurance on firearms? That stuff ain't free and you should know that.
Granted, you don't really know jack squat about anything to do with FFL transfers.
dogtown tom
New member
The current fee for an 01FFL (Dealer) is $200 for the application and first three years. Each three year renewal after that is $90. Not exactly a deal breaker for someone who is genuinely engaged in the business of dealing in firearms.
Not exactly. Those that lost their FFL back then weren't driven out of the business due to the fee, but because they shouldn't have been issued an FFL in the first place. They didn't possess a business license or sales tax permit and many were operating their business contrary to their state and local laws. ATF didn't revoke those licenses, those dealers chose to not renew rather than abide by their state and local laws. Many weren't zoned for a home based business.
When a dealer signs the Form 7 (application) they certify under penalty of law that they intend to engage in the business of dealing in firearms, that they would abide by all state and local laws and were not using the FFL for enhancing their personal collections.