Gopher a 45
New member
In regards to shooting the SOB on the spot, I thought Missouri didn't have CCW? Don't tell me there are people in the Show-Me-State who carry without state sanction? Gasp!
Who here wouldn't have shot this sunufabitch?!
- Thread starter Allen_Raiford
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Gwinnydapooh
Retired Screen Name
OK, guys, settle down. One of these days one of these threads is going to appear on 20/20 and you'll all be a little embarassed. Honestly, I understand the emotion but we're the ones who don't let emotion rule our lives, right? There are NOT those who don't deserve a trial. A trial will make no difference to this turd, he will be easily proven guilty.
As for all the elaborate torture, come on. That's just your emotions talking again. You're pissed off and I know why but you can't go around torturing people. What happened to "my CCW is for self-defense?" Those people who kept the woman from beating him did the right thing. Grabbing someone as a mob, beating him to pieces and then shooting him is the kind of justice the Crips and the Bloods believe in. NOT ME. I think not the rest of you either. I hope not.
I won't pretend that I wouldn't take a little pleasure in pounding him or dragging him, but it would be pleasure derived from wrongdoing. I believe in the death penalty but not without a fair trial and not as revenge. I just think a bullet is the way to remove a threat.
Gotta go now. There's a small tear in my asbestos suit I'm gonna have to have fixed before I check this topic again.
As for all the elaborate torture, come on. That's just your emotions talking again. You're pissed off and I know why but you can't go around torturing people. What happened to "my CCW is for self-defense?" Those people who kept the woman from beating him did the right thing. Grabbing someone as a mob, beating him to pieces and then shooting him is the kind of justice the Crips and the Bloods believe in. NOT ME. I think not the rest of you either. I hope not.
I won't pretend that I wouldn't take a little pleasure in pounding him or dragging him, but it would be pleasure derived from wrongdoing. I believe in the death penalty but not without a fair trial and not as revenge. I just think a bullet is the way to remove a threat.
Gotta go now. There's a small tear in my asbestos suit I'm gonna have to have fixed before I check this topic again.
TOMBERGSTR
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KAM_Indianapolis:
I was enraged also when I heard this. Don't know if I could have stopped myself from shooting the cretin even after he was down.
[/quote]
You would have been justified in shooting . I saw the gun in his hand as he aimed it at you . Can't find the gun officer ? Here use this one ( as 10 guys shove various weapons towards the bewildered officer ) . I'm sure half of the state saw the gun in his hand also .Not to mention the several busloads of witnesses coming in from surrounding states .
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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
I was enraged also when I heard this. Don't know if I could have stopped myself from shooting the cretin even after he was down.
[/quote]
You would have been justified in shooting . I saw the gun in his hand as he aimed it at you . Can't find the gun officer ? Here use this one ( as 10 guys shove various weapons towards the bewildered officer ) . I'm sure half of the state saw the gun in his hand also .Not to mention the several busloads of witnesses coming in from surrounding states .
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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
TOMBERGSTR
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kframe:
He's not gonna get the Death Penalty, as you can't for 2nd degree murder (as far as I know).
-Kframe[/quote]
How about the death occuring during a felony ? If the D.A. can't "make this happen" he should be looking for a job .
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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
He's not gonna get the Death Penalty, as you can't for 2nd degree murder (as far as I know).
-Kframe[/quote]
How about the death occuring during a felony ? If the D.A. can't "make this happen" he should be looking for a job .
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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
What a pathetic excuse for a human. I am sure that I would have been the one being held back by the mob. Unfortunately he cant get the death penalty unless they upgrade the charges to 1st deg murder. My only hope is that they put him in Gp while he is on trial and inform his neighbors that he is a rapist. From what I hear they are not treated too kindly, well depends on the point of view 
.
.Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
I wish I had not read this. I have 4 young children and a blazer. They are out of town with their mother visiting my folks this week.
I could not have possibly imagined such a horrible thing.
I could not have possibly imagined such a horrible thing.
He got out and saw the victim and THEN tried to drive off?
Gwinnydapooh has it right, but we all would have gone through an emotional rollercoaster at the site of this. Hell, just reading about it is depressing. 'Hard to think you wouldn't do anything to the t_rd, but we gotta remember what separates us from the goblins.
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 24, 2000).]
Gwinnydapooh has it right, but we all would have gone through an emotional rollercoaster at the site of this. Hell, just reading about it is depressing. 'Hard to think you wouldn't do anything to the t_rd, but we gotta remember what separates us from the goblins.
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 24, 2000).]
As tempting as it would be to pop this guy, I'm afraid I'm with Gwinny on this one. The rule of law protects us all. Hand him over to the courts and let them do their worst. (Oh, please, let them do their worst!)
Having said that, it is lucky for him that I wasn't there with my 9mm in hand!
Having said that, it is lucky for him that I wasn't there with my 9mm in hand!
Jeff Thomas
New member
This is so incredibly sad. I can only pray the poor boy lost consciousness early in the trama. It is always so hard to accept as reality the terrible things criminals can do to innocents.
While we consider the future of this scumbag, let's say a prayer for this poor child and his family.
While we consider the future of this scumbag, let's say a prayer for this poor child and his family.
citizenguardian
New member
I couldn't believe this story when I read it-- what that poor kid must have gone through at the end is literally unimaginable. I cried, and had to stop what I was doing. And, like most of you all, I felt like dragging this guy outside of my own car. It's hard to put into the words the rage that people there must have felt... And the poor kid's mom.
I do think, though, that I need to add something else: I don't believe that the guy knew that the kid was outside the car. At least, from what I read, what is most likely is that the guy thought the kid was pushed away and took off. I know he was going to take off later when he saw the kid's body, but I still think that there's reason to think he _knowingly_ killed this poor boy. I might be wrong about this, of course. From what I read I couldn't be certain. But what does it mean if my original suspicion is correct? It means that justice for this man is a conviction for negligent homicide, not more than that.
I should add, by the way, that I don't agree with the "felony-murder" rule, i.e., that death in the commission of a felony is sufficient to establish intent sufficient for murder. I don't believe this rule is just. If there is not sufficient ground for a murder conviction on traditional grounds then the person is not guilty of murder, and it should be left at that. A lesser homicide charge, perhaps, depending on the circumstances, but again this would depend on the presence of the elements of that crime.
Now, in any case, please understand that I certainly don't speak from the point of view of some general sympathy for criminals, or something like that. I feel much of the same response as many of you here to this horrible episode, too. In fact, I felt some misgiving posting this, as I'm not interested in starting an emotional debate on these issues in this thread or at this time. I just thought it would be worth posting this point of view.
From the tone above, some of you might respond angrily to what I've written. That's fine. But, just so you know, I won't reply in this thread, at this time. Not because I don't think you're worth replying to, or because the opposite point of view isn't serious, but just because I don't feel so great about arguing the issue here and now. That's all. I'm happy to take up this issue with anyone who wants to discuss it in another thread, at another time, when this incident has faded somewhat.
In the main, I'm just sorry that we have occasion to discuss this ghastly incident at all. I wish we didn't.
I do think, though, that I need to add something else: I don't believe that the guy knew that the kid was outside the car. At least, from what I read, what is most likely is that the guy thought the kid was pushed away and took off. I know he was going to take off later when he saw the kid's body, but I still think that there's reason to think he _knowingly_ killed this poor boy. I might be wrong about this, of course. From what I read I couldn't be certain. But what does it mean if my original suspicion is correct? It means that justice for this man is a conviction for negligent homicide, not more than that.
I should add, by the way, that I don't agree with the "felony-murder" rule, i.e., that death in the commission of a felony is sufficient to establish intent sufficient for murder. I don't believe this rule is just. If there is not sufficient ground for a murder conviction on traditional grounds then the person is not guilty of murder, and it should be left at that. A lesser homicide charge, perhaps, depending on the circumstances, but again this would depend on the presence of the elements of that crime.
Now, in any case, please understand that I certainly don't speak from the point of view of some general sympathy for criminals, or something like that. I feel much of the same response as many of you here to this horrible episode, too. In fact, I felt some misgiving posting this, as I'm not interested in starting an emotional debate on these issues in this thread or at this time. I just thought it would be worth posting this point of view.
From the tone above, some of you might respond angrily to what I've written. That's fine. But, just so you know, I won't reply in this thread, at this time. Not because I don't think you're worth replying to, or because the opposite point of view isn't serious, but just because I don't feel so great about arguing the issue here and now. That's all. I'm happy to take up this issue with anyone who wants to discuss it in another thread, at another time, when this incident has faded somewhat.
In the main, I'm just sorry that we have occasion to discuss this ghastly incident at all. I wish we didn't.
citizenguardian
New member
sorry, second parargraph should be, "I still think there's no reason.... ", etc.
All right, thanks.
All right, thanks.
{Vehicles should be outlawed! All they do is kill innocent children.....SEE!!!! Where Rosie to start the campaign on this one?}
Stupidity mode : off
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My family and I will say a prayer for the family of Jake D. Robel tonight. No need to feel sorry for the little guy now, I'm sure he's in a much better place.
Some people are a complete waist of skin and oxygen and the carjacker is a prime example of this.
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited February 23, 2000).]
Stupidity mode : off
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My family and I will say a prayer for the family of Jake D. Robel tonight. No need to feel sorry for the little guy now, I'm sure he's in a much better place.
Some people are a complete waist of skin and oxygen and the carjacker is a prime example of this.
Ross T.
[This message has been edited by ROSANGHAL (edited February 23, 2000).]
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