Who here thinks that the .45ACP is obselete!?!?

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45automan

New member
Hey guys i had to laugh at this one. I had some moron tell me how the .45acp is obselete and was good in it's time 70 years ago! I had all i could do not to laugh in his face. So i tell him to make his point to me and he stars ranting about energy. He says the 45 is to big and ineffiencent and that a 40 or 357sig has get this... "way more energy". What the hell does that really mean to who is getting hit with the slug?I was amazed at the people whp belive this ****. Excuse my english but iam in awe of his stupidity. The .45acp has been stopping people before this guys mother was even born.
Your thoughts on this please,45automan
 
Depends on what ya mean by "obsolete".

It works as good as it ever did. So does the Roman gladius, Zulu asegai and Samaurai katana. My recurve is "obsolete" compared to a compound bow; the deer it takes are just as tasty.

The 45 needs a big gun with a big grip if ya want hicap mags. Most military and PDs want hicap and smaller guns. I doubt most bad guys will feel any difference between a 40/45/357 JHP, but most PDs want the smaller Glock 22/23/31/32. You can put the G27/33 in a smaller pocket than the G30. The house/duty gun is a G21, the carry gun a G27/33.

So it is and it isn't.

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>>>>----> http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/

[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited August 31, 2000).]
 
Many people, especially many of our fellow countrymen, believe that newer is better. They cannot fathom the existence of men like John Browning who are such geniuses that they get it right the first time and create timeless designs.

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"He is useless on top of the ground; he ought to be under it, inspiring the cabbages."
Mark Twain
 
Today, I received from the seller a Series 80 Colt Officer's .45 in stainless with three dot sights. It doesn't look obsolete, believe me.

Regards,

Ledbetter
 
I like the 45 and its an ok round but it is obsolete despite its unreasonable popularity. The 45 acp delivers no more stopping power than the 40 sw and 357 sig which fit into smaller guns. ALso there is no armor piercing 45 acp round while this would be easy to do with a 357 sig. The 224 boz is the way of the futer.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
Energy does make a difference so does momentium. The 45 is low on energy but high on momentium . It works well but its not the most efficient round.
PAT
 
Automan,

Well let's see, three key government "power projectors" -- the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, DoD's Special Operations Command, and the Navy's SEALS -- selected .45 ACP weapons as their primary sidearm. These are all high-visibility, virtually unlimited funding, elite groups that had immediate, easy access to any handgun, from any manufacturer, in any caliber. In one instance (the FBI HRT), a traditional 1911A1 design was selected, while in the others a more modern design was chosen (this is not criticism of the 1911A1, which I revere). In all cases, however, the big, slow, low energy .45 ACP round was preferred.

Now I wonder whose opinion is more valid, the moron who doubted the 45's world-proven effectiveness, or these three organizations who are expert in firearms, who have access to everything, and who have scrutinized this problem in-depth and with all sorts of analytical information?


[This message has been edited by RWK (edited August 31, 2000).]
 
You have all said the good traits of a .45acp - thus I will and will remain to be loyal to the .45acp. But I carry both 9mm and .45 in 1911 model.
 
Yep, the .45 is obsolete.

But then again, so are the .357 Sig and the .40 S&W.

Both rounds emulate the performance of rounds designed well before World War II.

Some people are stupid, others are naieve. In your moron, you had the worst of both worlds. (G!)
 
Obsolete?

No, it's just another pistol round that's no better and no worse than several others.

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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
 
After going round and round, I came to the .45 as my favorite.
For one thing, it is a great round to reload. Easy and very safe. It is inherently accurate, and it boasts the top stopping power even according to Marshal and Sanow (who are the last people I would look to for the subject) who give the 230gr Hydrashock a %100 OSS rating from large guns, or around %96 from all guns.
I have never seen a study or expert yet who would say that the .45 is not a top stopper.

If it is energy you want, the 185gr +P can be had at well over 500 foot pounds.
But, I prefer the big, proven, soft shooting 230gr bullet though, because it is what I hit best with and that is what matters!

I do not think .45 is the be-all-end-all round, but I have confidence in it, and I enjoy shooting it.

There is more to just "stopping power" in picking a round. The .45 is easy to shoot, accurate, quiet, easy and safe to reload, easy to find ammo, low in recoil, etc, and it certainly does not lack in hitting power. I like it a lot.

I would feel just as save with the stopping ability of other top handgun rounds, and I do think that some of the other cartridges are it's equal at stopping ability or perhaps better in very specific circumstances, but I shoot the .45 the best, and that is what really matters.



[This message has been edited by CassandraComplex (edited August 31, 2000).]
 
The 45acp will travel to the stars with man,if we ever make it.
What most people don't take into acount is that the 45 with its large frontal area imparts its energy much better.On paper others look good but in my opinion the equations used are missing this factor and it is very important.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
To those who would say the .45ACP is obsolete, I have a short answer (based not on fact, science nor logic): BLASPHEMY!!

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If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.
 
I never get flamed when I say this, I usually get forest fire-ed.

Back around the start of the 1900s when the government did their research on stopping power they discovered it took a mininum of 45 caliber in ball ammo to be a reliable stopper. (And the 45 still works today.)

However, here in the early part of the 2000s we have some very efficient cartridges and bullets that can meet or exceed those same stopping requirements by using hollow points, increased velocity, etc.

Also there seems to be some strange characterics of the 45 that says when you use that diameter bullet you must use a certain weight slide, etc., etc. and that combination creates poor reliability. Such as jams, fail to feeds, limp wristing problems, etc. Every 45 I've ever owned displayed these problems to some extent. I've never been able to justify spending another 1000 dollars above the purchase price of a pistol to make it shoot reliably.
I've owned many smaller caliber pistols that would operate no matter how I held them and did not require a lot of modifications.

So how about a little shot from the fire extingusher here? If you like to tinker and customize your pistol and ammo and want a cartridge with a rainbow trajectory, get a 45.
You are welcome to all the ones I owned in the past.

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Wear your PFD
 
armchair knowitall's should be obsolete.as long as man is alive theyre will be the 45 standing at the top as always to be used and
well respected as it has been for last 90 odd years or so.
 
Sukersrus,

In the spirit of true TFL charity, I will attempt to restrain my rebuttal to your posting.

First, I believe the focus of this Automan's thread is the .45 APC round, not the various weapons that fire it. It seemed to me that most of your note concentrated on problems you have had and/or you perceive with 1911A1 style semiautomatics.

Second, the out-of-the-box reliability (and durability, for that matter) of several .45 ACP handguns is generally acknowledged as superb. I respectfully suggest that the Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks, Smith 625 revolvers, the latest Ruger autoloaders, among others, designed to chamber .45 ACP loads have the same outstanding reliability as their 9mm, .357 Sig, and .40 S&W cousins.

Third, 1911A1s are excellent pistols. My new (1998) Kimber and my old (1938) Colt are every bit as reliable as any of my "more modern" (Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks) semiautomatics designs -- and they are straight "out of the box" products, with zero invested in upgrades. In addition, the dependability of Springfield's 1911A1s is also excellent. And the "higher-end" Browning-based designs (Wilson, Baer, and so forth) truly set the worldwide standard for reliability in personal defense and in competition as well as for pinpoint accuracy.

Finally, we return to the efficacy of the .45 ACP round per se -- the crux of Automan's original posting. I am not disparaging the 9mm, the .357 Sig, the 10mm, or the .40 S&W. However, it seems interesting that:
(a) Several elite military and law enforcement units (the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, the Navy's SEALS, the Army's Delta operators, and the DoD's Special Operations Command, are examples) have selected the 45 -- 1911A1 and other designs -- as their primary handgun. These groups could have any sidearm and they thoroughly investigated all the options. But their common, final selection was the .45 ACP round.
(b) The LAPD, after witnessing the ineffectiveness of their sidearms during the Northridge Bank of America shootout has also turned to the "ancient" .45 ACP.
(c) The defensive effectiveness of the .45 ACP round (including many available loads) has been demonstrated repeatedly for close to one hundred years -- and under the wildest variety of "real world" conditions.

To summarize, even if you distrust the out-of-the-box reliability of 1911A1 type semiautomatics, the Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks, Rugers, revolvers, etc. chambered for the .45 ACP round are -- without question -- extremely dependable. Moreover, the .45 ACP load -- in its many variations -- has proven its ability to stop bad guys immediately to an unprecedented extent. None of the other common semiautomatic rounds (9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 Sig) has the confirmed record of accomplishment of the .45 ACP.

[This message has been edited by RWK (edited September 01, 2000).]
 
The 45 is _not_ the SEALs primary handgun, the 9mm is. They bought several thousand new 9mm pistols last year (Beretta and SIG), well after they bought the 45s. Hmmm....

The 45 is not the pick of the Sayeret Matkal, GSG-9, SAS, GIGN, Cobra, UEI, GIS, RAID, NOCS, GEO... who do know a thing or two and have a better record of real world ops w handguns too.

The 11.47mm (11.25x23, 11.25 Norwegian, whatever) and 1911 are very dandy indeed, but they are not the pick of most of the best if we are gonna play that silly game. :)

It is still the best at making the biggest, deepest holes in a handy package IMO. My second choice for things that go bump in the night. The 12 guage is the first. :)



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>>>>---->
http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/
 
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