Who here drinks?
- Thread starter RamItOne
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2damnold4this
New member
Jesus probably removed anything that could be used as a weapon from his house before he turned water into wine.
Alcohol can be abused as can firearms. Alcohol can be used responsibly as can firearms. It's true that alcohol can impair judgement if too much is consumed and we should be careful not to have impaired judgement while in possession of a firearm. We should keep in mind that someone who is drunk and claims self defense after using a firearm is going to have a rough time with the legal system but someone who has had a few beers at home or at a friend's house doesn't give up the right to self defense with a firearm.
Alcohol can be abused as can firearms. Alcohol can be used responsibly as can firearms. It's true that alcohol can impair judgement if too much is consumed and we should be careful not to have impaired judgement while in possession of a firearm. We should keep in mind that someone who is drunk and claims self defense after using a firearm is going to have a rough time with the legal system but someone who has had a few beers at home or at a friend's house doesn't give up the right to self defense with a firearm.
Scenario: You went to a friends house and had a couple beers. You're carrying. Some dumbass decides to crash the party and starts shooting (simplifying the scenario, because it doesn't matter that much). You draw and plug the guy twice in the chest, dropping him. Police come in to investigate, and as part of it, notice a beer can on the side table next to where you were sitting (spent casings on the floor next to the table show this as well). They decide to give you an alcohol breath test. You blow a 0.02, well below the legal limit. You figure you're in the clear.
Fast forward to the most likely inevitable criminal (or civil, for that matter) trial.
The opposition tells the jury that there was alcohol in your system. He brings in an expert witness to testify that even a relatively small amount of alcohol can impair judgement, specifically, the two beers you had the hour before the shooting. Since there is no legal definition of being drunk when using firearms (this might be different on a state to state basis), ANY amount can potentially be used against you. The jury doesn't care that you were only at 0.02, just that you were potentially impaired by alcohol, and your judgement could have been off.
Maybe it's enough evidence to turn the case against you, maybe it's not. I won't tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. But it might be a good idea to think about this a bit. For me, personally, I'm not really losing anything by not drinking. For others, it might be more difficult. But remember, when it comes to anything outside of DUI, the 0.08 BAC is absolutely irrelevant.
Master Blaster 2
Moderator
you can get a civil suite by using a firearm in self defence even when not drinking alcohol.
Yes I will drink 3 or 4 beers when cleaning out my garage or even my gutters and Yes I be carrying. I live is a relively crime free area. I am too old to club... and enjoy a few beers. (I don't smoke.)
I never could become a LDS Church member as I like my beer and coffee too much. Many of them have tried to convert me..
Yes I will drink 3 or 4 beers when cleaning out my garage or even my gutters and Yes I be carrying. I live is a relively crime free area. I am too old to club... and enjoy a few beers. (I don't smoke.)
I never could become a LDS Church member as I like my beer and coffee too much. Many of them have tried to convert me..
2damnold4this
New member
That scenario is a possibility. A lawyer for a plaintiff or a prosecutor might try to use a low blood alcohol level to cast doubt on a defendant's claim of self defense.
Here is another scenario: You have a few beers at a friends house but left your firearm at home because you knew you would drink. A couple of dumbasses decide to crash the party. They then rob and kill the unarmed party goers.
Some people might choose not to drink. Others may choose not to drink to excess or to not carry while drinking.
The only thing I'm trying to say is that you really need to think if that beer is worth it. I made the decision that I'm not losing anything by not drinking. It might not be the decision for everyone. I'm also not saying that if you decide to have a beer, you should leave your gun at home. But, you need to be totally aware of your decision, and possible consequences. For me, I am fully aware of the consequences of my decision. It's I don't drink alcohol. Not a big deal.
@Master Blaster - Chances are you WILL get both a criminal and civil trial if you use your firearm in self-defense. Why would you give the opposition more ammo against you? See my response above for knowing what your doing and understanding the consequences. I lived in a relatively crime free area in Alaska, and I was attacked by a drunk person while I was heading to work at 4am, before I started carrying. This was actually the catalyst that got me thinking about personal protection and eventually led me to carrying. Heck, I live in a relatively crime free area now, and just last night while I was at Walgreens, I saw a young girl run into the store crying. Apparently, she had been attacked by some pervert who was trying to touch her. The perv was gone before anyone could find him. Bottom line, relatively crime free means that crime does still happen. Believing you live in a crime free area is a false sense of security.
@2Damnold4this - See my reply above. You just have to make the decision and understand the consequences of your decision. I won't tell you what to do, but I'd like everyone to think long and hard about whether that beer is really worth it if you're carrying. Intoxication and loss of judgement happens even after one drink, and I can guarantee if you get a prosecutor with a chip on his shoulder during your trial, he WILL use it against you, regardless of how much you've had. As I've said numerous times, alcohol has never been a huge part of my life, so living without it is easy for me. By the way, your scenario is exactly the reason I've decided not to drink anymore.
For those that think it's ok to have a drink or two and carry, what is so important about that beer, that you're willing to risk the consequences? I suppose I just don't understand. Not being snarky, just curious.
@Master Blaster - Chances are you WILL get both a criminal and civil trial if you use your firearm in self-defense. Why would you give the opposition more ammo against you? See my response above for knowing what your doing and understanding the consequences. I lived in a relatively crime free area in Alaska, and I was attacked by a drunk person while I was heading to work at 4am, before I started carrying. This was actually the catalyst that got me thinking about personal protection and eventually led me to carrying. Heck, I live in a relatively crime free area now, and just last night while I was at Walgreens, I saw a young girl run into the store crying. Apparently, she had been attacked by some pervert who was trying to touch her. The perv was gone before anyone could find him. Bottom line, relatively crime free means that crime does still happen. Believing you live in a crime free area is a false sense of security.
@2Damnold4this - See my reply above. You just have to make the decision and understand the consequences of your decision. I won't tell you what to do, but I'd like everyone to think long and hard about whether that beer is really worth it if you're carrying. Intoxication and loss of judgement happens even after one drink, and I can guarantee if you get a prosecutor with a chip on his shoulder during your trial, he WILL use it against you, regardless of how much you've had. As I've said numerous times, alcohol has never been a huge part of my life, so living without it is easy for me. By the way, your scenario is exactly the reason I've decided not to drink anymore.
For those that think it's ok to have a drink or two and carry, what is so important about that beer, that you're willing to risk the consequences? I suppose I just don't understand. Not being snarky, just curious.
I can understand being home and having a couple of beers and having your firearm with you. You are at home and one should be able to relax at home. One thing I love about Oklahoma is if you are involved in SD shooting at it is deemed justified there is no civil suit. It is all and done in the eyes of the law.
Stressfire
New member
I do. Responsibly and at home for the most part.
If I do go out for an evening and plan to drink, I simply don't carry a pistol.
I do, however, tend to frequent higher-end establishments when I (and usually the wife) go out and we go with a group.
Not having a gun is not the end of the world, usually. Is it a dice roll? Yes, but you try telling my wife she can't go out dancing because I want to bring my gun
If I do go out for an evening and plan to drink, I simply don't carry a pistol.
I do, however, tend to frequent higher-end establishments when I (and usually the wife) go out and we go with a group.
Not having a gun is not the end of the world, usually. Is it a dice roll? Yes, but you try telling my wife she can't go out dancing because I want to bring my gun
2damnold4this
New member
Some people, particularly older men and those with heart disease or high cholesterol, get measurable health benefits from moderate drinking.
Redhawk5.5+P+
New member
Now kids, we all know we have a drunk uncle........
Maybe we should bring this up on "The View"!!!
Schools out!
NEXT!!!!
Maybe we should bring this up on "The View"!!!
Schools out!
NEXT!!!!
One of the major reasons that I practice off-body carry, is because I can easily go from carrying to not carrying, as the situation dictates. Going to a bar (or the no-guns office, a courthouse, a post office), leave the gun in the car. I definitely think of it strictly as bowing to the law, though.
I knew a guy who didn't drink, not a drop, and he carried 24-7. We'd go shoot pool in a tavern, and I'd always have to position myself, when he leaned across the table for a shot, to block the gallery's view of the j-frame under his jacket. He, like a lot of people, was aware that the places where guns are generally not legally allowed, are the very places where you are most likely to need them!
I knew a guy who didn't drink, not a drop, and he carried 24-7. We'd go shoot pool in a tavern, and I'd always have to position myself, when he leaned across the table for a shot, to block the gallery's view of the j-frame under his jacket. He, like a lot of people, was aware that the places where guns are generally not legally allowed, are the very places where you are most likely to need them!
In Florida, it's illegal to carry into a bar whether you drink or not. If you're in a restaurant that serves alcohol, you can drink all you want as long as the gun stays in the holster.
No, sometimes I just enjoy a good beer. Tastes good with Italian. Not going to stop eating red meat, not going to stop enjoying a beer once in a while.
No, sometimes I just enjoy a good beer. Tastes good with Italian. Not going to stop eating red meat, not going to stop enjoying a beer once in a while.
mrbatchelor
New member
Personally *I* don't like beer, and I don't like green olives.
I won't consume either of them.
There's no moral implication about green olives, nor is there any about beer. So whether someone else chooses differently is inconsequential. My choice is just like my personal preference for revolvers.
But do love a good steak.
Texas does outlaw carrying in establishments that make 51 percent or more of their money from the sale of alcohol ... I don't really care, because I don't go to bars to drink; if I want a drink, I have it at home ... when I'm dining out, my rule is simple; if I'm armed, I'm drinking iced tea ... and if it's legal, I'm always armed ... I don't ever want to have to explain, to myself or others, how having alcohol in my system did NOT affect my decision to shoot ... It's like driving, to me ... If I'm behind the wheel, or armed, no booze ... I don't judge others -- great line spoke by The Duke in "Hondo" has stayed with me for years -- "A long time ago, I made me a rule ... I let people do what they want to do." But that doesn't mean I have to get in the car with you if you've been drinking .. IMHO, o'course ...
[Some people, particularly older men and those with heart disease or high cholesterol, get measurable health benefits from moderate drinking.] Maybe and maybe not, but every Dr. I have heard comment has said if you don't drink don't start.
I am not convinced that it has a measurable impact. If I thought a glass of red wine a day would help I would drink it, but I don't believe it would help.
I sure have seen devastating impacts on individuals and families as a result of drinking alcohol, but no benefits.
Jerry
I am not convinced that it has a measurable impact. If I thought a glass of red wine a day would help I would drink it, but I don't believe it would help.
I sure have seen devastating impacts on individuals and families as a result of drinking alcohol, but no benefits.
Jerry
Redhawk5.5+P+
New member
You ever fill out a gun app? There's one question they ask you....
If you don't know what i'm talking about, go away.
If you don't know what i'm talking about, go away.
2damnold4this
New member
From the CDC:
Objectives. We examined the relationship between 4 low-risk behaviors—never smoked, healthy diet, adequate physical activity, and moderate alcohol consumption—and mortality in a representative sample of people in the United States.
Methods. We used data from 16958 participants aged 17 years and older in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey III Mortality Study from 1988 to 2006.
Results. The number of low-risk behaviors was inversely related to the risk for mortality. Compared with participants who had no low-risk behaviors, those who had all 4 experienced reduced all-cause mortality (adjusted hazard ratio [AHR]=0.37; 95% confidence interval [CI]=0.28, 0.49), mortality from malignant neoplasms (AHR=0.34; 95% CI=0.20, 0.56), major cardiovascular disease (AHR=0.35; 95% CI=0.24, 0.50), and other causes (AHR=0.43; 95% CI=0.25, 0.74). The rate advancement periods, representing the equivalent risk from a certain number of years of chronological age, for participants who had all 4 high-risk behaviors compared with those who had none were 11.1 years for all-cause mortality, 14.4 years for malignant neoplasms, 9.9 years for major cardiovascular disease, and 10.6 years for other causes.
Conclusions. Low-risk lifestyle factors exert a powerful and beneficial effect on mortality.
Read More: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...&RESULTFORMAT=&sortspec=relevance&maxtoshow=&
link to another study:
Findings are consistent with an interpretation that the survival effect for moderate drinking compared to abstention among older adults reflects 2 processes. First, the effect of confounding factors associated with alcohol abstention is considerable. However, even after taking account of traditional and nontraditional covariates, moderate alcohol consumption continued to show a beneficial effect in predicting mortality risk.
From the Bible: 1 Timothy 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
There seems to be a health benefit for moderate alcohol consumption if we believe medical science and/or the Bible. There also seems to be a clear downside for excessive alcohol consumption if we believe medical science and/or the Bible. If someone can't drink moderately, they shouldn't drink at all. If they don't want to drink at all, that's ok too. But there are benefits from moderate drinking.
Objectives. We examined the relationship between 4 low-risk behaviors—never smoked, healthy diet, adequate physical activity, and moderate alcohol consumption—and mortality in a representative sample of people in the United States.
Methods. We used data from 16958 participants aged 17 years and older in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey III Mortality Study from 1988 to 2006.
Results. The number of low-risk behaviors was inversely related to the risk for mortality. Compared with participants who had no low-risk behaviors, those who had all 4 experienced reduced all-cause mortality (adjusted hazard ratio [AHR]=0.37; 95% confidence interval [CI]=0.28, 0.49), mortality from malignant neoplasms (AHR=0.34; 95% CI=0.20, 0.56), major cardiovascular disease (AHR=0.35; 95% CI=0.24, 0.50), and other causes (AHR=0.43; 95% CI=0.25, 0.74). The rate advancement periods, representing the equivalent risk from a certain number of years of chronological age, for participants who had all 4 high-risk behaviors compared with those who had none were 11.1 years for all-cause mortality, 14.4 years for malignant neoplasms, 9.9 years for major cardiovascular disease, and 10.6 years for other causes.
Conclusions. Low-risk lifestyle factors exert a powerful and beneficial effect on mortality.
Read More: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...&RESULTFORMAT=&sortspec=relevance&maxtoshow=&
link to another study:
Findings are consistent with an interpretation that the survival effect for moderate drinking compared to abstention among older adults reflects 2 processes. First, the effect of confounding factors associated with alcohol abstention is considerable. However, even after taking account of traditional and nontraditional covariates, moderate alcohol consumption continued to show a beneficial effect in predicting mortality risk.
From the Bible: 1 Timothy 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
There seems to be a health benefit for moderate alcohol consumption if we believe medical science and/or the Bible. There also seems to be a clear downside for excessive alcohol consumption if we believe medical science and/or the Bible. If someone can't drink moderately, they shouldn't drink at all. If they don't want to drink at all, that's ok too. But there are benefits from moderate drinking.