Who are you?

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hogdogs said:
I spent way more years as an independent "outrider" than a "clubber". I have never been the bully or thug!
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This is a common misconception by citizens.

As I have stated, if I do one (or two) things for TFL, it's to address stereotypes on bikers and the knife industry.

To be honest, I was always more afraid of a paper tiger or a drunken townie than I was of a biker. Who knows what these nuts will do to show their bravery--and it's usually by challenging a biker talking to a nice lady in the middle of his cheeseburger.

(Sorry, guys. Everytime I had a run-in with a townie I had a really great cheesburger prepared for me, and I had to deal with the idiot first. If you've ever been to Joey's Anchor Inn on Schenk's Corners and had Brown-Guy build you a burger, you'd understand why I get so ticked off!)

Ya' know, it doesn't cost anything to drop by your local Harley dealer and get to know us. You can swing by the Harley home page and play the 'Live By It' video. You'll find us a pretty playful group. Just don't poke the bear or show us your squeaky clean black-belt.

...or show up in blue face paint and sing "I Am The Warrior."
 
AMEN tourist! I was the guy on the side of the road changing a tire on an "upscale" car insisting that the timid owner stay inside if they felt safer and would insist they keep their money when i was done. I, while a patch holder, slid my dump truck sideways to keep traffic from hitting the still crashing deputy and his bike when he got hit by an auto driver. it turns out he was the same officer that harassed me and my wife in the winter while we were on a ride. I did not hold that against him and did my best to calm him down and try to get him to keep from thrashing about until I noticed the car driver trying to scoot... I headed her off and in as nice a way as possible persuaded her to return to the scene to await the police. I am no bully and resent those that are. If you are not in the wrong I am right there for anyone. If you do the crime you do yer time!
Brent
 
Hey guys, there is a big difference between "outlaw biker" and a biker. My past experience is with outlaw bikers.

Please do not get me wrong on this.

The group that my troubled sister (God rest her soul) got involved in were big time crimminals. They had their hands into all kinds of stuff.

There is one thing that I could not figure out about these guys, and they are the only ones in my whole life that ever did it (and they did it on a number of occasions). They would often confront me and say "you really think you are a bad ass don't you?" This coming from battle hardened crimminals to a 120 pound teenager. What they heck is up with that type of BS! Here are a group of thugs that basically have their own army and they are threatened by a kid.

It ain't about warrior mindset to me. It is un wavering respect I have for myself and my upbringing
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Since my mindset had not truley been tested yet, I would have to concure with this. What is stupid is that it was that respect for myself that made them say such stupid things. It was their lack of ability to intimidate me that led to to asking a question that only an idiot would ask. How odd it was staring at a guy dressed like a street commando question me about thinking I was a bad ass. "Take a look in the mirror" retort usually ended that stupidity.

The very best word that comes to mind when it comes to mindset is "indignation."

Damn good word!
 
If they wish to be better combat shooters, there's nothing wrong with a Ruger .22 and a few bricks of ammo on the weekends.
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I would strongly disagree with this. Combat shooting is a lot more than just shooting a lot. Now take the same thing out to the range after reading and practicing what is written in "Shooting to Live" or "Kill or Get Killed" and you may be onto a little something.

But just shooting a lot of ammo has nothing to do with combat shooting.
 
Thank you

The great interaction and exchange of passion on this forum is truly a blessing . Thank you for all the outstanding comments. It is a pleasure to be among people who can express their ideas and remain true to their beliefs. Thank you.
I look forward to hearing from all of the above who posted in regards this issue.
 
Sweatnbullets said:
Hey guys, there is a big difference between "outlaw biker" and a biker. My past experience is with outlaw bikers.
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Yes, there is. But it is not as clear cut as turning one of these guys upside down to look at the union label.

Here goes.

By definition, an "outlaw" is a motorcycle contest entrant who is not a member of the American Motorcycle Association.

Because some bikers were supposedly causing the sport problems, one official assured the public that "99% of the motorcyclist were good citizens." Hence, we have two biker slang terms.

One biker laughed that he was now a "1%er," and the overall term for non-riding people as "citizens."

Now is where it gets murky. I do not believe that any club actually formed to be outlaw from the first meeting. Most of these clubs have roots from the 1940's and 1950's before our terms were even coined. My club was formed in 1968, deliberately as a non-outlaw club, primarily as a riding and touring association. Yikes, it gets even murkier.

While three members of my club were AMA members for the purposes of participating in sanctioned events, my club does not hold an AMA franchise. I never participated in AMA sanctioned events, nor am I a member of the AMA at large.

On paper, on paper, on paper, a member of the AMA would and could point his bony, anal, holier than thou finger in my direction and gasp, "Chico is an outlaw! Hide the women!"

In truth, my club organizes Red Cross blood drives, St. Vincent de Paul clothing rides, we are part of Harley's MDA drives to raise funds for medical causes, and several of our members are veterans.

I would be highly insulted if you accused me of being an outlaw or a RUB.

To my way of thinking, the overall concept to describe the function and direction of a cycle club by terming them "outlaw" is outdated and subject to the wrong interpretation.

There are numerous members of my cycle club who are more honest, giving, helpful and committed to their families than the gossipping members of my church. And that's a fact.

If you doubt so much as one word I have stated here, come meet me in person to have a knife sharpened. I'm not hiding, don't worry about your safety, I have never been "a warrior."

Edit: This is very important. Due to another matter (very similar to this) the club officers have reminded me that in discussing overall club issues that I am to remind the citizens that I am not a club spokesman nor do I represent the club in any way. No problem there. I was never a club officer, nor do I want that headache.
 
STLRN said:
Combat shooting is a lot more than just shooting

Amen to that. Unfortunately most don't understand that shooting is probably the smallest part of combat shooting.
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Overall, I agree. But let's be honest here. You do not strap on a rig as a newbie and shoot IPSC.

In fact, let me be the first to admit what we all know.

We have winters in Wisconsin that sometimes drop to 30 or 40 below zero. I might not shoot for two or three months.

Many times, I have taken my Ruger 22/45 out to shake the rust out of my skills, loaded the magazine (with my thumb beside the trigger guard) chambered a round, taken a solid modified Weaver stance, a shallow breath, carefully squeezed the trigger, and nothing happened.

I forgot to take the safety off.

Like everyone here, I need to address the fundamentals from time to time.

My comment was address to an individual who was unhappy with his overall performance and decided to make steps in self-improvement.
 
I feel that Cooper did a very good job on preparing us for the "proactive" gunfight. This is a fight that you actually had a chance to see coming and his training was geared towards that.

The problem is that for a civilian there is much higher chance to be in a "reactive" gunfight. The facts are that it is impossible to remain "aware" every second of everyday. It is also a fact that you will most likely be "deselected" if you are seen as being aware. What the crimminal is looking for is not someone in "yellow," they are looking for sheeple in white, or trained people that let task fixation put them in condition brown.:D

This is what a crimminal is looking for. This is when they attack. So the fact is that we will most likely be behind in the reactionary curve. We will be reacting out of a startled response. As I said in an earlier post, this startled response can be used as the "line in the sand" that Cooper uses as the "mental trigger." An immediate action drill can be conditioned out of this startled response to an indentified deadly threat. The bold portion is very important so that we do not continue with the misunderstandings that have arisen due to people not reading what has actually been written.

This startled reaction to an identified deadly threat works very well as a foundation of the "dynamic movement drawstroke." The physiological response to being startled does everything that you need it to do to put in the very best position that you can be in. Your base lowers and loads up to move, your chin drops and the shoulders hunch to protect the head. The hands move to the midline to defend. The only thing that needs additional programming is clearing the cover garment and acquiring the handgun before the hands come to the centerline, for those occasions when going to guns is more appropriate than going hands on.

Being able to do this at the appropriate times is a key factor to knowing who you are. Open ended force on force training can test this ability. What I mean by "open ended' is that there is an agreement that everyone remains unarmed (except for airsofts and training knives) and keeps their eye protection on and that an attack can happen anytime during the course......anytime! This can happen during lunch, during breaks, while using the bathroom.....anytime when you might find the student in condition brown. This working of the "reactionary continuum" is something that has been completely missing in the square range training of the past.

Knowing exactly how you respond inside of this reactionary continuum is a huge part of knowing who you are.
 
I think it sounds like some people are afraid of the terminology of warrior. Maybe the term conjures visions of Gengis Kahn and ruthless killing all the time and don't like the association of the vision with themselves. Don't forget to realize that full blown combat is but a small facet of being a warrior / warrior mindset.

I agree with the op and had thought that the warrior mindset is merely another term for being in condition yellow even before he said it. And of course being willing to act also, but who will admit to not being willing to act? Scenario a nine yr old girl being stuffed into a car, kicking/screaming etc., who would not go into warrior mode and attempt to help extract the girl from her abductors? (Just the crowd who suffers from propagandaitis and would argue with themselves that it may be a parental situation and they could create liability for themselves, instead of acting), but generally speaking, most would help, just don't want the term associated with the act etc.

Life is a war though, albeit a strange kind of cold war perhaps for the citizenry, but a war nonetheless. Will the self defense crowd admit, even perceive that to be defensive, one must condition yellow (overwatch, mil term) and watch for threats? That by definition is warrior mindset. If a threat is perceived, (...comin' at me with a knife) then one goes on the offensive to deliver a pre emptive strike to the threat. The best defense eh?

defensive/offensive, warrior/sheepdog, ying/yang, you can't have one without the other. We all have a little warrior inside us. Just differing levels of what type incident will bring it out. I say embrace the term, it's just a word. Once you reject the negative connotation of the word you are ready to start learning/training. Only then do you find out thats it not all killing. If anything ever does happen in your presence that prompts your participation, then you may actually be able to help in time, having the right mindset. I think it's pretty well been shown that one usually does not rise to the occassion, but rather falls back on his training. So I think that it behooves one and all to cultivate this warrior mindset.

Just as 80% of being a sniper is knowledge and use of camoflague, so it is with the warrior mindset, not all killing like some make it out. There's more to it than that if you just quit rejecting the word, and get to the real implied meaning.
 
Edward429451 said:
I think it sounds like some people are afraid of the terminology of warrior.
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This issue pretty much defines the debate I am having with Sweatnbullets.

However, after talking to guys in self defense forums, the better definition would be "some people are afraid of not being termed a warrior."

Granted, I understand that most of us are proud of our accomplishments. But there seems to be a type of guy who builds his entire life and ego on a singular aspect. Or, as stated in some cases, he's simply a Walter Mitty.

In many debates I have opined that people evolve over a lifetime. For the purposes of this debate, we have mentioned bikers. However, I also spent 30 years in white-collar finance. I wasn't a 20 year old hellraiser all of my life!

However, this process of evolving seems to terrify some guys. The moment a gray hair pops out, or girls start to hold doors open for them, they go into a meltdown that can only be quenched with gallons of testosterone.

"I am a warrior. My life is a testament to excellence in the field, surveillance, the unbridled passion to my country and hitting center mass..."

...yakkety yakkety, yakkety. Who are they trying to fool? Me, or themselves? Most of them have never even been in the army, for pete's sake. Then they freak out when I tell them that my 60 year old retired friends can probably kick their collective azzes, and they squeal like I criticized Brett Favre.

If they were doing as much killing, shooting, cutting, barroom brawling or stints as mercenaries, they'd be dead, crippled, in hiding or in jail.

I don't believe them, I've never met guys who really do this kind of thing, and I've heard saloon fairytales told with better joie de vivre. I kind of chalk this stuff up to legends of sex with triplets, conversations with ETs and 175 MPH Harleys.

And to put a perfect point on that side of the debate, we'd better be able to trace your ISP to Iraq. If I find out it's really your mom's basement...
 
Now you've gone too far .... Not the sex with triplets, nor visits with ET, but the 175mph Harley! :D I've personally witnessed Harley's going 320mph out at the Bonneville Salt Flats and over 200mph multiple times.

Oh, and you left out Bigfoot too. :)

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
 
C&C

"And to put a perfect point on that side of the debate, we'd better be able to trace your ISP to Iraq. If I find out it's really your mom's basement..."

It's not a basement! anymore,it is the command and control center of the Free world!!

can you really trace me......? wow.......


so...who are you?
 
Traveler01 said:
so...who are you?
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And that brings us full-circle.

It's clear to me that the members of TFL are your normal batch of working stiffs who incorporate safety and security into their daily lives. Hooray. Good choice. I do the same. In fact, we're replacing an entry door with one of higher quality before the end of the year.

It's just that the 'war stories' tickle me. Yeah, I admit to stretching the truth a might in dining and drinking with a lovely young woman some thirty years ago, but at the end of the day, you are who you are.

Case in point. I just bought a new set of cams for my Dyna. I already have the 95-inch kit and I figured I'd update the engine this winter while the front end is apart.

I bought a cam set called '203.' You Harley boys will know the performance enhancement of that number.

For you pedestrians, a 203 cam is designed to give you access to the HP and torque curve in the low and mid-ranges. This is useful for on-ramp power or passing slow moving vehicles.

"But Chico," you gesticulate, "that big Harley is going to run out of breath over 100 MPH! Don't you rough-tough bikers roar into town balls-to-the-walls?"

In truth, during the 40 years I have ridden big bikes, I have been over 100 MPH perhaps two dozen times. And over 120 MPH twice. I do pass slow moving farm vehicles regularly.

What's wrong with the truth, that's what I do. My hair is gray. Sometimes I get tired at the gym. I routinely doze off in front of the TV. I own Bichons, not Rottweilers. I'm undoubtedly better at handling spreadsheets than a katana. I do laundry. I folded towels last night before I went to bed.

Yes, I own Tussey pistols, spoke to him a few days ago for some more work. I sharpen knives. I've usually found in a crappy black Harley T-shirt.

But those things don't define me as a man, and neither will broadcasting "I am a warrior" to people who have been around the block.

For my part, I'd like to end here. I enjoy debating with you guys, and I like the forum. By this time, you know how I feel, and why. Let's find a new topic.
 
11-12-2007, 03:07 PM #13
Tanzer wrote:


... I teach fourth-grade with a warrior mindset; I combat the stupidity enscanced by the liberal preachings of my colleagues and kids' parents. I deal with kids that think you're evil if you cut down a tree, they don't know why (really) but you must be, because they learned "trees are our friends" in third grade.
I point out facts; If every week, we cut down an area of rainforest the size of Kentucky, or every day, one the size of a football field, and we've done so for thirty years, how come there's still a rainforest??? You'd pay to see the looks on kid's faces, you'd hate to be me in the teacher's lounge. Why bother? Warrior attitude - fight for truth.
It doesn't mean being the guy on the cover of the Molly Hatchet album, it means I plan nothing less than victory. The truth is my sword (histrionic, huh?). Come at me with BS and lies, and I will never back down.
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http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/links/ipcc.htm


Tanzer you might get out there to hug a tree, or two. 2020 is not that far off, and the conclusion was essentially, if the human species stops adding any CO2 to the air right now, the inertia of the scenario still means a 4 to 5 foot rise in the sea level in 12 years ... global warming is increasing at an expoential rate.

What I gleaned from your post, and those like it, is a "My way, or the highway" mentality, us-them, winner-loser, black-white ....

I consider this a very primitive view of the world, but then I believe Plato held that man in nature was in a state of war. I guess we, as a species have never really gotten beyond that. The more that violence is the tool of the 'incompetent man', the less likely "peace, as our profession" becomes our reality.

Tanzer, I'd hate to be you under any circumstances. Continue your illusion, as you wish ... continue to be combative ... continue the "I'm right, and you are wrong" mentality .... I understand your joke about the rain forrest, simply because one tree can constitute a rain forrest. However, I do not think it funny.

The winner-loser mindset will create much debate and argument over the next decade. When the ocean level has risen the 4-5 feet, people will get frightened and demand change. Then the inertia will mean a rise of 20 feet is inevitable. As I understand that scenario, it will be much like the "Black pleague of London".

I am someone who would rather hug a tree, than shoot a fellow traveler ... Namasté.
 
The Tourist said:
It appears that people get very attached to their labels in society. When someone like me even infers, "No, you're not," they get mighty defensive.
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Oy vey, here we go again.

I was gonna get all up in your face about this, but two things struck me;

1). You may be getting into generalities
2). It's not worth it.

Now on to more important things...

As I had said before the WARRIOR MINDSET that me and all my buddies at our ninja dojo at the mall came up with (certainly not a US Army Ranger in Benning back in the early 90's, if the stories and rumours I heard while serving as an Infantryman in the Canadian Forces are true) does not centre on being a warrior, but instead focuses on the visualization and realization of the win. A person who decides in the instant that fight or flight kicks in to fight and to win at that same time are showing the psychological requirement needed to live, if not win, but live, and if they do, they have earned it. WARRIOR MINDSET means thinking like and (with proper preperation, remember the 7Ps?) becoming (hopefully) the winner. You enter a scenario thinking, "oh, I'm gonna die" and you probably will. You enter into that situation thinking, "I'm going to fight and I'm going to win" your chances are now better.

One thing to think about, the guys who do the actual fighting tend to be the guys where the next evolution originated. The self-defence industry, often peopled by staff who have been at least associated with the high-speed-low-drag folks very often pick up the language. Kinda like "picatinny", "M1913", "STANAG", "purple-monkey-dish-washer", "high-speed-low-drag"... well you get the idea...
 
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's confused.

Seriously, as close as I can figure (and the purple monkey stuff did, in fact, throw me for a while) this guy is from Calgary Alberta, Canada, but thinks he's a US Army Ranger in Benning back in the early 90's.

Okay, okay, I've had some bad mescal, myself. I wound up in Guadalajara in a hula skirt.

Other than that, I haven't a clue.
 
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