Which would you rather trust your life with? .22 LR or .25 ACP

Which would you rather have in a life or death situation?

  • .22 LR

    Votes: 109 67.7%

  • .25 ACP

    Votes: 52 32.3%
  • Total voters
    161
  • Poll closed .
oldgranpa: I've read that report and find it useful....esp. the average number rounds until incapacitation and percentage of incapacitation failures. The only data I dispute is the .22 rimfire data. A .22lr fired from a 4-6" barrel is a far different creature than when fired from a 2" barrel....a much greater difference than is seen in centerfire rounds.
 
oldgranpa
nice report gives a slight edge for the .22.........

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
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Interesting reading and further food for thought. The one glaring stat that I think will be the most controversial is % actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 60% for the .22lr which is higher than same stat for the .44mag :confused:.

Nothing is empirical but it's fun to read.


-Cheers
 
Seecamp

Guess you haven't seen the Seecamp
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I have both seen and fired the Seecamp. Beautifully made little firearms. Actually, slightly larger than the Bernardelli and very difficult to find for sale.
 
I Choose .22lr but in reality there about a 1 in a billion chance your life is gonna depend on any practical difference between the 2 rounds. I'm not sweating such a small difference.
 
Interesting information and very informative guys.

I do wonder, and I know this has been stated, but when choosing .22 LR over .25 ACP, are people considering barrel length?

Can you get mouse guns that are revolvers that have a barrel length that is significantly longer? (My experience says "No")

A .22 LR Rifle beats a .25 ACP pistol. This I have no doubt. When fired from the same type of weapon, then I have doubts.

All that said, this may have beat down some of my assumptions around .25 ACP. I still wouldn't want to rely on it for SD though.
 
Botswana

Interesting information and very informative guys.
I do wonder, and I know this has been stated, but when choosing .22 LR over .25 ACP, are people considering barrel length?
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Totally agree that this thread is invaluable as I can never get enough of sane ballistic performance discussions (I may be guilty of 'unintentionally' stating an oxymoron here ;)). Sometimes they get hot and that's what the mods are here to oversee (as well as contribute), but for the most part these discussions offer a plethora of super information.

Those who are thinking correctly must use barrel length as a KEY variable in this discussion.

Can you get mouse guns that are revolvers that have a barrel length that is significantly longer? (My experience says "No")
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Yes but then it wouldn't really qualify as a 'mouse-gun' and thus skew the testing stats/results (notice that most of the posts in this thread concern barrels in the neighborhood of 2 3/4'').

A .22 LR Rifle beats a .25 ACP pistol. This I have no doubt. When fired from the same type of weapon, then I have doubts.
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Yes, there's nothing empirical (IMO) about ballistic debates in terms of 'your bullet is better than mine.' I look at empirical data as actual matters of physics and I just don't think anything is absolute in gelatin testing and the like...But I am certainly not qualified to proclaim that they are not both useful and beneficial (and I might add more interesting and entertaining than most of the junk you find on TV).

All that said, this may have beat down some of my assumptions around .25 ACP. I still wouldn't want to rely on it for SD though.
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Nor would I as a recommendation--That being said, it's 103 degrees here as I type and I will soon be doing a few chores in the backyard (I'm talking sweat-time sauna-like :eek:). You know what won't be with me...my 9/45. You know what will be on me, a mouse-gun of some type (I have a modest little-guy collection, nothing like my ex's shoes but I digress...) in my front short pocket.

-Cheers
 
I will keep my 25 autos . I have 2Beretta 21 's but my Beretta 950 is a lot better pistol for carry . If need really deep them My 25 Bauer gets the call.
 
If I were carrying a little pocket auto I'd go with .25ACP for reasons mentioned many times, starting with centerfire priming.

If I had to go .22LR in a SD gun I might practice with the cheap stuff but only carry stingers or minimags to give me the best chance at reliable ignition and performance.
 
There are quite a few people if you search (I happen to be one myself as well as a few other people I know) that have two of the same model mouse-gun in both calibers (say a Bobcat 21A in .22/.25acp or PT-22/25). Used to be just 'because' but lately it has become really beneficial in terms of practice as you can fire the relatively inexpensive .22lr and, if preferred, carry same gun in .25acp.

Analogously, to me it's similar to those who practice with .38sp in their .357 and carry .357 loads for SD.

-Cheers
 
Regarding the question on the current Bobcat versus the 950, they are very similar, but the 950 is smaller, particularly in the grip area...thinner and shorter.
They are not really intended for cocked and locked carry...in fact, the early models did not have a manual safety at all. The hammer is large, and well shaped for easy cocking on the draw.
I regret the lack of cheap 25acp ammo...a few years ago, before S&B ammo was common, I used buy their 25acp ammo in 25rd boxes for $4.00 a box...it was beautiful ammo, with a nickel plated FMJ bullet, a brass case, and lacquer sealed primer and case mouth. Hotter, too.
I would love to see a truncated cone FMJ +P load offered....some reloaders have achieved some respectable velocities in this cartridge.
 
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So, due to some comments, I decided to price .25 ACP ammo.

Yikes! Depending on where you look, the same brand of .25 ACP costs a dollar less to a dollar more then a 50 round box of .45 ACP.

That is simply insane. You can buy 9mm and even .380 cheaper.
 
Generally, .25s are very small pocket guns. You can get a .32 or a .380 in about the same size, and I would much rather have a .32 or a .380 than either a .22 or a .25.

The only reason I would ever consider a .22 or a .25 is if my hand strength had deteriorated to the point where I could not shoot a small .380 like my LCP (which is admittedly a bit barky) or a Kel-Tec P-32 (which is a mouse fart).

In the worst case, for home defense, I would load up my heavy Ruger MkII. Almost zero recoil, and it is easy to shoot well.

If I were leaving the house, I'd consider the P-32 an absolute minimum...in reality, I currently consider a 9mm the absolute minimum, and my Kahr PM9 is easier to shoot than my LCP. Give it another 10 years, arthritis gets a bit worse, maybe the P-32 becomes all I can handle. Or maybe I practice with a P32 and carry the LCP.
 
July 14, 2012, 01:15 PM #44
Old Grump
Senior Member


Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in a little hut in the woods
Posts: 2,451 I personally know 2 people one with a 22 revolver and one with a 25ACP who used their guns in a life or death situation. My electrician was jumped by a bruiser who took exception to something he said and commenced to whaling on him. He couldn't protect himself and drew his little revolver and put 9 rounds into the torso of the bruiser who died on the spot.

In a little town 7 miles from me was a gunsmith who was doing the bluing job on my Win 94 32 Win Spcl. His father a well known drunk and bully attacked his son and he drew the only gun he had on him, shot 6 times and 5 of the bullets bounced off his dads head. The jury acquitted him of attempted murder because everybody in town knew his dad and believed his story. His dad has 5 pucker mark scars on his forehead, he is still a drunk but he doesn't bully anybody anymore.

Where you hit is important but I only have these two examples that I know of personally so I voted 22.
__________________

Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, 2nd Amendment Foundation and CCRKBA
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Old Grump, that's a fine post! I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "pucker mark" used to describe boinks on the nogin before....:D

I voted .22 by the way.

I remember reading something years ago by either Jeff Cooper or Elmer Keith, although I'm pretty certain it was from Cooper. Anyway, what he wrote stuck with me over the years. Here's what he said......

"Don't ever carry a .25. If you ever need it and point it at somebody, it may go off if you pull the trigger. If it does fire, it may hit someone. If it does manage to hit someone, they'll get angry and may do you more harm."

Poor 'ol .25 is taking a thumpin' in this thread!:D
 
Today, 08:18 PM #96
Botswana

So, due to some comments, I decided to price .25 ACP ammo.

Yikes! Depending on where you look, the same brand of .25 ACP costs a dollar less to a dollar more then a 50 round box of .45 ACP.

That is simply insane. You can buy 9mm and even .380 cheaper.
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That's why the .25acp is becoming more and more of an historical 'relic' if you will as they don't manufacture .25acp ammo due to very little demand. Becuase .25acp ammo is scarce say compared to the quantities of .22lr it costs more in theory (never know who to trust but that's what the vendors tell me).

Thus as I see it, a .25acp owner has several choices available (regardless of why you have it , collection, BUG, JMB fan etc.):

1) Keep it and never shoot it or if you do so very infrequently as it's like your shooting .45acp costs wise which as I see it is nonsensical
2) My choice--I have a Bobcat 21A in both calibers and PT-22/25 so I practice with the .22lr and carry the .25 for a BUG or 'work in the yard gun' when it's 106 degrees like today :(
3) Your rich and costs is moot so you can shoot .25acp 24/7 which in case I say Congratulations :)!

**Edited to add 4) reloading option as suggested by ScottRiqui of which I am not familiar with (someday...)

-Cheers
 
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4) Or, if you reload, you can make them for about $7.50 per box of 50, using FMJ bullets. Figure about $5.50 per 50 if you use cast bullets.
 
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