Which small CCW 9mm (10 or better round capacity)

eflyguy said:
TunnelRat said:
To some level we’re all preparing for realistically rare events.
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Thanks for proving my point.

I'll take my chances with 7 well-placed shots that I practice frequently over hauling around a cannon and 30 rounds all day long.

I can't think of an instance where an armed assailant had "backup" in recent history.
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I don't carry a gun because of the odds. I carry because of the stakes.
 
chaim said:
I have the aforementioned guns that will work, and I have a Kel Tec Pf-9 (I don't ever carry it since it is borderline reliable, but with some work it could possibly be reliable enough). .
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If you just want a new gun, I understand. But you already own one of the very best CC carry weapons ever made. The PF9, is THE most convenient concealable handgun I know of. It is lighter, thinner, and 8 shots of 9mm - too many popular pistols are just to big, too fat, too heavy.
IMHO, once you step up from the PF9, it should be to be to a compact-size (Glock 19/23, M&P, etc.).
 
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I will add my two cents. Personally have not bought into the fact that practical EDC should require or even necessary to have 10 rounds or more. Not reality at least where I live. One to Three shots at the most. Regardless of how many rounds you believe you need, I focus on my draw, and point and shoot skills. That first or second shot is of utmost importance.The Bad guys, in most instances will have the advantage of surprise on their side. My goal when training and practice will focus on draw, and different drills of double taps etc. I also prefer to find the perfect gun for my own individual and personal fit. Shooting characteristic of the gun along with good concealment trump more rounds. In fact, I would rather have a gun I prefer to shoot and carry a small Backup gun than either more more rounds or a spare magazine.
If I was to go down by a assault, I feel the odds of dropping my gun and needing a second gun more likely than just a few extra round or a spare magazine. Both of which would be useless.
And I believe in training with that Pocket gun to maxim proficiently as well. Also a spare gun helps to balance the carry load for EDC.
I do believe the statistics that the average person will need more than one shot to hit center mass. Most average gun owners do not even make it to the range but once a month. However I do not intend to be just average. I spend the time to go past that mark.
 
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Sig 365; wife liked mine so much I got her one for Christmas; 10, 12 or 15 round mags in a smaller package than the G26 - and it fits my hand a LOT better than any Glock
 
Never assume a gunfight is only going to involve only one to three rounds because that is what the stats tell you. You know what they say about liars, damn liars, and statisticians.

I will say though, I care about stakes AND odds.
 
Am 6'2 and about 170 lbs, I have NO problems carrying a PCR or MP9c at about my front pocket in a IWB kydex holster.

Had a P365 sold it real fast. Nice carry piece horrible gun to shoot and train with.

I'll give up size and weight every time for shootability and control.
 
I'm pretty impressed with the ergos on the SA Hellcat. Can't say much else as I just bought it, but it's thin, points well and has a great sight picture. It is also a
Springfield so it has a great company behind it.
 
Hellcat if you're looking for something that can fit in a pants pocket. I found adding a Hogue grip helped take out much of the snappiness, without adding too much bulk.

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But the Hellcat is still tough to shoot well, as others have mentioned - the Glock 43X is easier to get on target. But it's a little too big for pocket carry.
 
Glock 43x. I bought my wife one because it fit her hand, the slide was easy enough for her to rack. I took it to the range to break it in. I went and bought me one too!

These are the only two polymer handguns that I own and I really like them.
 
No mention of Glock 26?
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I'm looking for something thinner. With the weight loss, my 1st gen M&P40c (roughly the size of a G26) conceals as well as my compact service pistols (P229, CZ PCR and P01) used to. It works when I have a cover garment. I want something thinner for the old role of that one (when I want to tuck or otherwise just want thinner and more concealable). Maybe, as I carry it more, I'll find ways to better conceal the M&P tucked and not feel like I look like I have a tumor, in which case I'll consider the G26 for a 9mm in that class (or maybe just always carry my .40).


A few people suggested I just go with my Pf-9. I've had it for about a decade, it has never been reliable enough for me to trust it. Maybe if I send it to Kel-tec (never bothered, I have other small guns, and the issues aren't quite consistent enough to bother) they could get it to where I can trust it. However, I still prefer 10 or more rounds minimum.


A few people wanted to debate round count. First, it is a personal choice, I won't say your choice is wrong for you, please don't say mine is wrong for me. Second, while most of the time (if you ever need it) just showing a gun is enough and you'll never need any rounds. Yet, for the fraction of self-defense uses of a handgun where you actually may need to shoot, everyone I know loads their guns (even though you'd shave a few ounces if you didn't). Well, in police shootings only about 1/3 of rounds hit. With a determined attacker (the kind who comes after you even after you produce a gun for instance), on average it takes 2-3 hits to stop the attack. So, it can easily take 6-9 rounds to stop just one attacker. If you are only carrying 6 rounds, good luck if you have multiple attackers. I want the gun with the largest capacity that I can reasonably carry. When I was just over 300LBS, that was the P229 and PCR/P01 much of the time and the M&P40c the rest of the time. Now with the weight loss, that is the M&P40c much of the time, but a smaller gun the rest of the time. Now that there are 10 round+ guns the size of the old 6-8 round micro-9s, that is what I want for best compromise between size/carryability and capacity.
 
I'd go for the Sig 365 -vs- SA Hellcat.
The 365 is made in the USA. The Hellcat in Croatia. Just the "Get off my lawn" kicking in. :)
 
I lost 80lbs (and kept it off), now @ 140lbs--carry a Taurus G2c 9mm (stainless dark purple) or a Sig P365 (thumb safety)--mostly carry the Taurus--carry IWB--happy w/ both pistols.:D
 
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Anyone have a Ruger Max 9? It would seem to fill his wishlist. I handled one at the LGS the other day. Seems solid. I like the tritium front sight. Also handled a Glock 43x. I liked both of them. Glock is slightly bigger.
 
I am in agreement with TunnelRat, and others.

Statistics say that you won't need to use a pistol. But if you do -

Statistics say that you won't be attacked by more than a single person. But if you do -

Statistics say that you won't need to do more than make a pistol visible before watching the attackers run away. But if you do -

Statistics say that you won't need to do more than fire a single round before watching the attackers run away. But if you do -

Statistics say that you won't need to do more than actually wound an attacker with a single shot before watching the attackers run or limp away.

Statistics say that you won't hit an attacker with even half the shots you fire.

--- So if you are actually shooting for the ultimate score (gunfight) you know damn well that the Statistics hate you. Do you want to trust your life to them? ---

Bart Noir
 
The man stated what he was looking for and asked for opinions based on the outlined desires:

The Ruger as stated above is a contender. Seems to be garnering good props and based on the Security 9 ( which is a very respectable pistol, not pretty, not flashy but just good)

The Canik TP9SC also might be worth looking at. Canik's shoot and feel like Walthers. (they should, they are clones essentially) They fit good in the hand and surprise all who shoot them (myself included)

Sig is Sig...you would not be upset

Berretta has their SC APX which is a cosmetic love or hate nightmare, but it shoots good.

Hellcat...nuff said as all have mentioned.

Shield M&Ps...see Hellcat.

Sub compacts are a must shoot before purchase IMO. When it comes to carry there is ALOT going on that you do not want to realize when Perp 1 comes up to you asking to liberate your belongings. I have fired all the ones I mentioned above except for the Ruger...but I think i mentioned that ( have not touched the Glock so cant comment) and when I carry a SC it is the Canik that gets tucked into my belt. I am fortunate to live in Northern Maine where you can open carry and even better the need to is almost none existent. Thats my kind of living.
 
Anyone have a Ruger Max 9? It would seem to fill his wishlist.
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It may go on my list, though the store didn't have any (it isn't yet on the MD approved list, too new). Since it isn't on the MD list, if I buy soon I can't even consider it. If I wait I'll take a look if it is MD legal by then (I will likely wait so I can get a good look at the Shield Plus,and wait for prices to get saner again).



Revisiting a couple older posts I didn't comment on...
So if you ever want to pocket carry (I do every day... sucker for convenience), consider finding a Kahr CM9. I'm currently tempted to try a P365 for the capacity and shorter trigger travel, but I can't deny the accuracy of this thing. I have "Mag guts" in it, which takes it from 6+1 to 7+1. So 8 in my mind is pretty close to 10, I can't justify a switch yet while the prices of the new high capacity subcompacts are still so high.
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I've always liked Kahrs. I've wanted a PM9 since they came out, but they were always priced just high enough that I went with something else. Since, for pocket carry, a little smaller/lighter is always better I may pick one up since my PF-9 never worked out for that (a Hellcat or P365 may conceal in a pocket with heavy material and large pockets, but with thinner material or smaller pockets, a smaller and/or lighter gun may be needed). For more extreme concealment needs I have my Ruger LCP (now that it has both a Hogue slip on grip to allow more time at the range, and a Crimson Trace laser to address its two weaknesses, I love the thing). However, I will continue to want something that can fit in most pockets that is also 9mm. The Hellcat or P365 should work with some of my pants, and be great for IWB, but I will still want something smaller for some needs. All that to say, the Kahr PM9 is still on my list to acquire, some day.

If you just want a new gun, I understand. But you already own one of the very best CC carry weapons ever made. The PF9, is THE most convenient concealable handgun I know of. It is lighter, thinner, and 8 shots of 9mm
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Forget everything else for a moment, the most important criteria for any defensive handgun is that it is reliable. I'm glad yours is, but if you read my post, you know, mine isn't. Since I haven't taken it to the range in years I took it yesterday. While it does fine with FMJ, I wasn't able to get through more than about 2 mags without a failure to feed using JHP (I shot a box of 50 Fiocchi 115gr JHP this time, though that is the same issue I had in the past with other JHPs as well). I've never shot it much (too thin and light to be comfortable plus unreliable equal a gun that isn't much fun to shoot). Maybe more rounds and it will "break in." Maybe the Kel Tec "fluff and buff" or polishing the feed ramp will do it. Maybe I can shoot off several hundred dollars of ammo, testing different brands of 9mm defensive ammo to find one or two brands that I can get through a few mags without a hiccup. Or, maybe I can sell it for more than I paid for it (given the current market), let someone else do that, and get a gun that is both reliable and has the capacity that I want (now that they are available in these smaller guns).

By the way, that hasn't soured me on Kel Tec. I knew what I was buying... a gun that is more likely than average to have trouble, but if it doesn't, it is a great bargain. I still might do the "fluff and buff" or at least polish the feed ramp. I wanted to like this gun, still want to. There are things I do like about it... For a long DAO trigger pull, the trigger really isn't bad (I shoot DA revolvers all the time). My 50 year old eyes really do appreciate the large, easy to see, front dot, much better than the front sight on even some larger guns. I do find myself often getting on Gunbroker to check out used P11s (I shot one years ago and liked it, there was one at the store when I got the Pf9 and I still wish I got the P11 instead).
 
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Personally I believe they all have to be test fired to find out which one you prefer. They DO NOT all shoot the same. Triggers are different, handling characteristics and grips etc. I also would not purchase a firearm Micro 9mm strictly because of the round count of a few more rounds. Not if there is a single stack that shoots better and has a more preferred trigger.
Imo the real world is that in a assault the first few rounds and just a few seconds at the most, will be the deciding factor of life or death. Get the gun that you are best suited for. Quick and fast fire accuracy that you can perform the best with. I always train and practice with the first three rounds as my goal. To draw fast and hit center mass. If you feel you need 10 rds then that is fine. I do not. In fact I seldom even carry a spare magazine.

PS One thing I did find that I personally like when testing the new Micro's was the fact that I like the streamlined grip of the Hellcat much better. The Slide lock is not sticking out and is recessed. For me it gave a much better grip. It is the only complaint I have against my Kahr. No need for these IMO.
 
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Congratulations on loosing the weight. That’s done more towards saving your life than carrying a gun.

I vote that you get the Sig 365. Great gun. I semi retired all the rest when I got mine.
 
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