Which Revolver for My 92 Year-old Dad?

[Winchester_73]

I also like the Glock 26 but figured that d-glud already eliminated that possibility for one reason or another. In general, they are great for carry. I have a G19, and the 26 has nearly everything I like about the G19, but in a smaller package. 9mm is plenty for stopping with hydrashoks, gold dots, etc etc.

The grip is short, but they make grip extension bottoms for those mags.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Smith & Wesson M&P15-22P

Load it with CCI Stingers and he'll have 25 chances not to miss with his old eyes.
This gun requires no strength to operate.

 

[22-rimfire]

That 22 has merit, but it would be a bit difficult to carry.

 

[Husqvarna]

re a dog: most dogs that would be of any real defensive use require way too much excersise(mental and physical) for almost any senior citizen

Any dog would be a great companion and atleast work as an alarm, but most dogs require too much exercise for a 92 year old. an english bulldog might be a good idea thou, require very little exercise,heck too much is bad for them, small walks around the yard or the block is enough and good for your father to

stubborn but chill dogs, a burglar might trip and fall on it to!

 

[Wyosmith]

Well I have some ideas that I derive from over 30 years of training others to shoot.
I have trained people from every age and walk of life and I do not share all the opinions put forth in “conventional wisdom”

In my field of endeavor many (in fact most) instructors place more weight on the equipment than they do on the person. I am 100% convinced that the training should be made to fit the individual. I do believe that probably 19 out of 20 people can be trained the same way and all 19 will benefit greatly, but 1 in 20 needs some special
consideration.

I remember the first person I trained that had obvious special limitations. It was a woman in her early 40s that was in a wheel chair and had only partial use of one hand and total use of the other arm and hand. Her dad left her a Colt SAA 45 that dated from about 1920. She asked me to train her to use it. In the months of training she became VERY deadly with that 45. I loaded her ammo for her. She shot carefully and could reload the gun in her lap well. Sure……….she’d never reload her SA Colt as fast as she could have loaded a DA revolver or an auto, but she was good with it none the less, and she could keep a tin can bouncing for 5 or 6 shots out to about 50 yards, and do it fast.

She is not EVER going to be a SWAT cop, and she’s not EVER going to be a security guard. That was a given. So 5 shots from a full power 45 Colt with 225 grain Hollow Point ammo was going to be fine for her in about every case, and the SA grip frame let her fire the gun without any pain at all.

I believe that her love for the old gun and the confidence she had with it made her a good shot and for 5-6 shots any one that she shot at was going to get hit, and hit hard.

So…….was I wrong to not train her to use a 1911, or a S&W 357 mag? No!

She did fire those guns. They were not what she wanted to use because her hand was crippled to a point that learning to rack a slide was very difficult for her, and the DA grip frame caused her pain in recoil. But the old SA was just fine with 225 grain bullets at 1000 FPS

She was a student that REALLY got me to rethink my training overview. That was back in the mid 70s and I have never forgotten the lesson. I think I learned as much as she did from that experience.

I am fanatical in my opinion that in every case the weight has to be put 98% on the man (or woman) and 2% on what they shoot. A good shot with a state of the art gun is better than a good shot with an obsolete gun. I would not argue that

But a mediocre shot with a great gun will get beat by a great shot with a flintlock single shot about 98% of the time.

So as far as your dad is concerned, the best advice I can give is "get him a gun she LIKES to shoot and shoot a lot". A lowly 22 that he can hit coins with is WAY better than a 44 mag he will miss with.

This kind of advice doesn’t sell new guns well. It’s not even good for sales of gun accessories. But it’s still true. I believe most if not all experienced shooters will agree with it too. By “experienced" I am talking about men with 30-60 years of trigger time. It’s hard for a 30 year old to fully understand the challenges of a 90 year old, but the 90 year old can understand the 30 year old just fine.

So if your dad would enjoy and be able to use a 1911 or a S&W M-27 or Ruger GP100, that’s what he should have.

If however he can’t use those kinds of guns anymore because of advanced age, look at guns he can use WELL regardless of caliber.

Power Speed and accuracy should be balanced in the ideal world. In the world of the 90 year old, "Ideal" will be very hard to reach.

Power can be given up to good advantage in most cases if the first shot hits well. It’s NOT ideal but it’s always better than a miss--- or a shot not fired because he was too slow.

 

[dgludwig]

Quote:
But I see no "problem" with my stance ("if everything else is almost equal...I'll opt for the greater capacity every time...") if I ever have the misfortune of getting caught up in a gun fight.

There are "not all equal" issues here, such as what gun specifically with 6? A taurus has 6, but 5 from the S&W is better because its a better manufacturer and might be a better design to boot. Everything is not necessarily going to be equal with what you desire because S&W does not make a small pocket size 6 shot 38 cal so you are considering a gun that could be inferior.

So, Winchester, did you catch the modifier "almost"? And did you pick up on the two revolvers I cited that are almost equal, in terms of size (the Cobra's cylinder width measures 1.400; the Airweight's cylinder width measures 1.309-that's about 1/10th of an inch difference) and weight (they both weigh 16 ounces); one having a five-shot capacity and one a six-shot capacity?

I'm not saying that five shots won't carry the day most of the time, but if everything else is mostly equal (i.e., a six-shot, Colt Cobra/Agent weighing 16 ounces vs a five-shot, Smith Airweight, weighing 16 ounces), I'll opt for the greater capacity every time. "Most of the time" is not all of the time. You can count on some misses and you can't count out multiple aggressors.

The salient point remains: speed loaders, extra magazines, semi-autos vs revolvers, the direction the cylinder release opens rolleyes and all other red herrings aside, all other things being mostly equal, twenty percent more ammunition in a gun fight will always be an advantage in any life-threatening situation where bullets are being exchanged. To argue otherwise is either to just be arguing for argument's sake or worse. You apparently won't "agree to disagree" so I'm afraid you're going to have to find another dance partner on this "issue"-I'm sitting this useless Tango out.

 

[JC57]

I prefer 6-shots over 5, which is why in my first post in this thread I suggested to you a number of good quality S&W K-frame snubnose revolvers that are available in the used market. I even pointed out to you a nice Gunbroker auction for a model 12, the perfect answer to your needs. Did you happen to take a look at that one?

Long time ago I had purchased a Colt Agent (airweight version of the Detective Special) specifically because it was a 6-shot and not much larger than the S&W 5-shot J-frames. It shot fine in general and it's not that hard to get used to pulling backwards on the cylinder release.

So if you want to get one of the Taurus revolvers I'd say go for it. Should save you and your brother a few bucks, and not ALL Taurus guns have problems or they'd go out of business.

Charter Arms makes some 6-shot snubnose revolvers these days as well, the Police Undercover - 2.2" barrel, 6-shot, 20oz, comes with rubber finger-grooved grips that look like they'd absorb recoil, and you can always just load it with 38 wadcutters to make it easy to shoot. It's another inexpensive option.

I can't speak for the current ones but I've got an old Charter .38 Undercover 1st gen made around 80-82 that shoots OK.

So get whatever you feel like, it'll probably be fine. A 92-year old man living alone has more problems to worry about than just being a victim of crime, so I wouldn't spend way too much time on just this one thing.

 

[dgludwig]

Find him the right combination of carry weight, trigger pull, and accurate hits. If a .22 is what he likes best, don't worry. He's old and alone. His confidence level and skill level are more important than caliber.

Thanks, Obambulate, for reminding me of my mission here and for some of the reasons why I opened this thread. I have my own level of experience and background that, maybe in some peoples' eyes, would make them wonder why I even posted the situation my father is facing and its attendant questions. Just go with what I already know. The problem is that I've never encountered a predicament quite like this before and I'm trying to keep an open mind as to the solution.
Since I received my first gun (a Winchester Model 67, single-shot .22rf) on Christmas of 1957 when I was fourteen years old-a rifle that I still have, of course, and one that is headed for a lucky grandson or granddaughter on another Christmas day pretty soon-until the present time, I have accumulated a lot of nice firearms. There's not a bad gun among them (I'm no "gun snob", but I like to think I have good taste in firearms and I indulge in my obsession whenever I can find a little extra jingle in the jeans ). I have only one Taurus among the scores of Winchesters, Colts, Smith & Wessons, Brownings, ad nauseam (at least to my long-suffering wife of 44 years ) and I have that Taurus despite all the rancorous attacks from the "net" I've seen directed toward the brand over the past several years. I like to make up my own mind over these things and you can't make up a mind that is already made-up. So, as I said, I'm trying to keep my mind open to all advice I am lucky enough to receive. And, just because I may end up disagreeing with it doesn't make it wrong.
Four years in the military police and 26 years in le (which, of course, entailed a lot of "tactical" style shooting in training/qualification sessions over that period of time); serious Bullseye shooting competition and competing in Service Rifle matches over the past fifty years or so, has not made me feel especially qualified or confident in choosing the "right" sidearm for use in protecting my dad (for instance, I started out thinking that a revolver would be the obvious choice for him and his situation. But then, some members made some good points about a semi-auto pistol as being a viable if not the best candidate for the role-which got me to thinking seriously about something I had already sort of arbitrarily waived off).
Lots of good suggestions recommending guns that, as already has been acknowledged, can never hope to perform the dual roles (ccw and hd) that only two separate and different guns can perform best. But one gun it must be and, despite all of the preconceived notions and baggage based on prior experience that each of us bring to the table as fellow human beings, I promise to continue to endeavor to keep an open mind as to any advice on this matter that comes my way.

 

[dgludwig]

So get whatever you feel like, it'll probably be fine. A 92-year old man living alone has more problems to worry about than just being a victim of crime, so I wouldn't spend way too much time on just this one thing.

Probably the wisest bit of advice made yet. Thanks, JC57.

 

[dgludwig]

I even pointed out to you a nice Gunbroker auction for a model 12, the perfect answer to your needs. Did you happen to take a look at that one?

Yes I did and I still think, like you, that it (a Model 12) might be the very best option available, at least in the sense of an affordable revolver. And I haven't seen one selling that cheap in quite a while. The problem is, as already mentioned, I have a couple of brothers who are helping me getting my dad through the ccw course and who also are a part of the "committee" deciding on which handgun to get. They are both accomplished shooters and have just as much good sense as I might have as to choosing which platform might serve the purpose best. Both of them are leaning strongly towards a hammerless (dao), alloy, J-framed size revolver, preferably with a laser sight affixed to it.
I've encouraged them to "tune-in" to this discussion. We'll see how it goes...

 

[sliptap]

I know you're really gunning for a revolver here, but I'll throw out an oddball suggestion. What about a Beretta Tomcat? I'll post a pic:

I think this makes sense for the situation for several reasons. It is small and easy to conceal. The flip-up barrel makes it easy to load a round without having to rack the slide. It is all-metal, so the added weight really reduces recoil. Finally, it is DA / SA, so SA trigger would be easy to fire.

I believe they made versions of them in .32, which would probably be more desirable than the .22LR. However, I own a .22LR version and it is a fun little gun to shoot. You would just need to make sure that you find the right ammo because mine is finicky with certain brands. It functions flawlessly with Stingers and Yellowjackets though.

This thread reminds me of why I love viewing this forum so much. There is plenty of knowledge to gain and great people posting here.

No matter what you end up doing, I hope it works out for you. I am sure it is not an easy situation to be in.

 

[dgludwig]

Actually, sliptap, JC57 made much the same point regarding the merits offered by the Beretta Tomcat and for much the same reasons you proffered. Thanks for the input-and welcome to The Firing Line!

 

[BloodyBucket03]

Good Luck with finding the right pistol for your dad

dgludwig, you are right their are many different views, & experiences on this forum, you have your experience from the LE & the Military side of the house which we both have in common. I have been carrying firearms for more than half my life as a Soldier & a Federal Law Enforcement officer. Lot's of good advice. Hope you help your dad find the pistol that is comfortable for him. I just didn't want to see you rule out a semi-auto all together because their are some nice semi-auto pistol's out there that are very simple & easy to use

 

[skoro]

Though he hasn't shot a gun in years, there was a time when he practiced with a .38 Special revolver (K-38),

Sounds like a S&W Model 10 would be just about perfect for his situation.

 

[sliptap]

Actually, sliptap, JC57 made much the sane point regarding the merits offered by the Beretta Tomcat and for much the same reasons you proffered. Thanks for the input-and welcome to The Firing Line!

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm usually pretty good about reading through ALL of the posts but it looks like JC snuck one past me

I ditto BloodyBucket03. I hope you find something that works out for him. I am sure you two will be able to find a good solution to keep him safe.

 

[Winchester_73]

So, Winchester, did you catch the modifier "almost"? And did you pick up on the two revolvers I cited that are almost equal, in terms of size (the Cobra's cylinder width measures 1.400; the Airweight's cylinder width measures 1.309-that's about 1/10th of an inch difference) and weight (they both weigh 16 ounces); one having a five-shot capacity and one a six-shot capacity?

Ya I did but you went to LA via Omaha (ever hear that Charlie Daniels song?) I'm not sure what your point was "almost" equal. We know that certain guns are almost equal to others, and we understand that going from platform to platform, maker to maker model to model gives up certain advantages while allow for other ones. I found your statement to be a little confusing but we were thinking along the same lines.

The salient point remains: speed loaders, extra magazines, semi-autos vs revolvers, the direction the cylinder release opens and all other red herrings aside, all other things being mostly equal, twenty percent more ammunition in a gun fight will always be an advantage in any life-threatening situation where bullets are being exchanged. To argue otherwise is either to just be arguing for argument's sake or worse. You apparently won't "agree to disagree" so I'm afraid you're going to have to find another dance partner on this "issue"-I'm sitting this useless Tango out.

I don't think we can ever reconcile on this issue. For me to say 6 shots is only one more than 5, and so since capacity is such a concern, a speed loader should be carried, that was just logic. No "red herrings" there. I was taking what you implied by your words and posing alternate questions.

I was also implying that perhaps we agree, but we are articulating it all differently. Instead, we may completely disagree and so, we can leave it at that. I do think its an advantage overall, like my Cobra vs my S&W 60 I used to have. Ya it has 6 shots, but for me, thats small enough to merit very little consideration. between the SS and weight of the model 60, I liked it better for carry. To you, the extra shot is very important because of "what if", but I say that "what if" situation is so rare, that its not worth considering, and to that you say "but still possible" and really, thats fine. The biggest issue here is what your dad will shoot well with, and what he feels comfortable using.

I think a S&W model 12 is a reasonable compromise. Its bigger, and so should handle better, has 6 shots, but is lightweight as well. The only issues there are the 38+P (are model 12s certified for that? I don't know myself) and how the recoil will be in that airweight frame. You could go with either the snubnose or the 4in if your dad wanted to carry more in the car and less on his person. Of course he could carry a 4in anyways.

All in all, we rarely disagree, and I think we both have good points on all of this. I trust that you will make a good choice for your dad regardless.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would only consider a revolver from Colt, S&W, or Ruger in this case. Money does not seem to be a central issue to a point. Plus eventually you will get the gun back and you and your brothers can fight over it. Of course, that is certainly not a decision point with this committee choice.

You might start thinking about holster choice if you go with a heavier steel framed revolver. Would he be willing to wear a gun in a holster? This is the main reason I carry a S&W 442. I can slip it in my pocket if I choose to. But I don't particularly like shooting them. It is pretty much for business, versus comfort.

Anyone who reads my posts know I love 22 revolvers. I feel okay with a 22 and have a lot of fun with the Ruger LCR-22 (a more recent toy). It is the only snubbie 22 I shoot. Speed loaders on these light revolvers (38's too) is a problem in my opinion and should probably be dismissed other than to have inside the house.

 

[Winchester_73]

Anyone who reads my posts know I love 22 revolvers.

No 22-rimfire, we had no idea

I feel okay with a 22 and have a lot of fun with the Ruger LCR-22 (a more recent toy). It is the only snubbie 22 I shoot.

Thats a shame, this 22 snub for me shoots very well. I'm sure you have one. You should take it out sometime.

 

[dgludwig]

Ya I did but you went to LA via Omaha (ever hear that Charlie Daniels song?) I'm not sure what your point was "almost" equal.

Well, I think Omaha is a nice place to visit-and I doubt I'll ever find myself back in LA again. I was careful to use the word "almost" because, as we all know, almost nothing is equal in every respect. But, in terms of size, weight and configuration, the Colt Cobra/Agent and the Smith Airweight revolvers are pretty darn close to being equal-well, almost.

For me to say 6 shots is only one more than 5, and so since capacity is such a concern, a speed loader should be carried, that was just logic.

And I can just as "logically" argue (and did) that five shots is only one more than four and if capacity is so little a concern, no speed loader need be carried. You know, it's entirely feasible to carry a speed loader along even if the revolver your toting is loaded with six rounds...

I don't think we can ever reconcile on this issue.

True-and that doesn't bother me one bit any more than it should you.

All in all, we rarely disagree, and I think we both have good points on all of this.

Also true. And I hope you understand that I have appreciated your contributions and, as always, have given them serious consideration.

I trust that you will make a good choice for your dad regardless.

Thank you. That's the important thing here.

 

[dgludwig]

Thats a shame, this 22 snub for me shoots very well. I'm sure you have one.

What a beautiful little nickeled revolver! And, no, I don't have one-but wish I did. I can't tell for sure from the photo, but it looks like the little guy has adjustable sights. Is this J-frame rendition relatively scarce?