which pump shotgun will last the longest?
- Thread starter Super-Dave
- Start date
For anyone with the "BANK" and desire to find out, I offer to find out for ya...
One of each and an open $$$ account for the ammo...
I will document the ammo consumption of each to the shell... I will also include the session time frame and type of shooting be it high speed shooting and reloads or more typical shooting.
I bet I have a hard time finding a major failure in any of the well known designs.
After a pre-determined amount of shells, 100K or 200K, I will no longer give the guns any maintenance and we will see if that finds a weakness and when.
Brent
One of each and an open $$$ account for the ammo...
I will document the ammo consumption of each to the shell... I will also include the session time frame and type of shooting be it high speed shooting and reloads or more typical shooting.
I bet I have a hard time finding a major failure in any of the well known designs.
After a pre-determined amount of shells, 100K or 200K, I will no longer give the guns any maintenance and we will see if that finds a weakness and when.
Brent
I also agree that the Ithaca 37 has stood the test of time. However, out of those listed, I voted for the Mossberg. Now I know folks will cite the aluminum receiver not being as strong as the steel receiver of the 870 but I will cite the shell latches and ejector that are staked in place in the 870 receiver. We had a couple old 870s in our armory that were restaked several times over the years and they were one or maybe two more restaking jobs at best away from having to be returned to depot as unrepairable. Any time you have to do something with restaking, there is going to be a finite number of times you can do it before you run out of metal and here is where that issue exists on the 870 that is often overlooked by non-armorer types.
Grunt, I also point out that there is that Murphy feller in the field...
Not only the finite number of times a repair can be done, You also have gunk, grunge and other nasty cooties that can get behind both staked items and a full cleaning behind is very difficult under controlled conditions and impossible under stressed conditions... Give me some good ol' cover fire and 10 minutes and I can strip and clean YOUR 500 in the heat of battle and return it ready to go back to work! If an action bar failed, and one is still there, I will remove the failed one and return the gun ready work with a single bar...
I ain't a 'smith but I arz a redneck!
Brent
Not only the finite number of times a repair can be done, You also have gunk, grunge and other nasty cooties that can get behind both staked items and a full cleaning behind is very difficult under controlled conditions and impossible under stressed conditions... Give me some good ol' cover fire and 10 minutes and I can strip and clean YOUR 500 in the heat of battle and return it ready to go back to work! If an action bar failed, and one is still there, I will remove the failed one and return the gun ready work with a single bar...
I ain't a 'smith but I arz a redneck!
Brent
fisherman66
New member
I can only express my familiarity in pumps with a modern production 870 and a mid 50's Winchester Model 12. I would expect the Model 12 to give the 870 a good run fer longevity king. I default to the Ithaca crowd.
I'd prefer a Win 23 XTR, but that's a pretty big departure from what we are talking about.
I'd prefer a Win 23 XTR, but that's a pretty big departure from what we are talking about.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
With many, many thousands of these models produced and many thousands of people with totals of millions upon millions of reliable rounds fired, you will not find a definitive answer. All you're going to hear is members' experiences with what works for them. There's nothing wrong with that. Just stating it's going to go nowhere in the quest for the Holy Grail.
SilentHitz
New member
Couldn't prove it by me, Dad had one bought in the early 50's and hunted Dove, rabbit, squirrel, deer, turkey, ect. with it for years. I got it when I outgrew my .410 and did the same thing, now my brother has it. Never a malfunction, and besides regular cleaning, never a screw turned on it....if it had a fatal flaw, I think I would have found it in my youth LOL.
...begins in the chamber of an Ithaca...sorry, couldn't resist. Tuttle is right IMO, you would really have to abuse the hell out of most pump guns to wear it out...of any brand.
A non issue.
Any of those will last longer than we, given some PM and TLC.
Ad that includes the bargain basement po' relation of the 500, the Maverick.
A couple examples.....
Anecdotal evidence I see repeatedly states the receivers on 870s used for trap oft start cracking at the rear of the ejection port at about round 250,000.
Remington used to replace these, but currently they just tell you to buy another. I can relate to that.
And, when the state of MD opened a prison in 1981, they put two 870s aside for training weapons. Average monthly shell use was 500 to 1000 rounds between pre service and requals.
Each.
As with most agency weapons, cleaning was slapdash for the most part and done by under motivated, non firearm cognizant, lackadaisical people.
When I retired in 1998, the only parts replaced on one weapon was the lumber. The other had rotated into the towers and was on duty with the rest.
Performance was flawless.
A good friend shoots a Model 12 he's had for decades. A trap model built in the 30s and that's what he uses it for. He's a truthful sort, and says his records indicate he's run 230K rounds through it. Not trouble free, it had some trigger issues requiring shop time with a very good smith.
Two acquaintances are brothers, and share the custody of a well worn Model 97. It has little blue left, the bead had been replaced a few times and they gave up and soldered on a ramp when the metal wouldn't take the thread tap any more. Other than that and a few strip and cleans at a smith over the decades, it's been trouble and PM free since before WWI.
97s are not known as the smoothest shuckers, but this one mimics butter. It has taken everything from deer to squirrels and sat behind the door on a Appalachian cabin, just in case.
And while 37s are not range tools,mostly, I know of several that are on third and fourth generation owners and have lots of stories in them we'll never get to hear.
I have lots of input and decades of experience with shotguns. I can recall only a few lemon pump guns.
There was the Noble. Someone had been smoking tar paper shingles when they thought up that mess.
The best description I ever heard of came from a smith who, despite expertise in his field, refused to work on them.
"The Noble is a poorly designed and made hunk of trash that must have been thought up in the Kremlin to frustrate American shooters. Toss this piece of junk away and get you anything else".....
Some of the older Savages were problematic. I can't recall which models at this time. The Browning designs weren't the problems.
Same with the Springfields, owned by Savage.
Early S&W shotguns made in Japan had the rep of being Divas, but the ones I've seen in private hands worked well. As Agency arms, they faded fast.
That's about it, get anything else and you'll likely be happy with it and so will your grandkids.....
Any of those will last longer than we, given some PM and TLC.
Ad that includes the bargain basement po' relation of the 500, the Maverick.
A couple examples.....
Anecdotal evidence I see repeatedly states the receivers on 870s used for trap oft start cracking at the rear of the ejection port at about round 250,000.
Remington used to replace these, but currently they just tell you to buy another. I can relate to that.
And, when the state of MD opened a prison in 1981, they put two 870s aside for training weapons. Average monthly shell use was 500 to 1000 rounds between pre service and requals.
Each.
As with most agency weapons, cleaning was slapdash for the most part and done by under motivated, non firearm cognizant, lackadaisical people.
When I retired in 1998, the only parts replaced on one weapon was the lumber. The other had rotated into the towers and was on duty with the rest.
Performance was flawless.
A good friend shoots a Model 12 he's had for decades. A trap model built in the 30s and that's what he uses it for. He's a truthful sort, and says his records indicate he's run 230K rounds through it. Not trouble free, it had some trigger issues requiring shop time with a very good smith.
Two acquaintances are brothers, and share the custody of a well worn Model 97. It has little blue left, the bead had been replaced a few times and they gave up and soldered on a ramp when the metal wouldn't take the thread tap any more. Other than that and a few strip and cleans at a smith over the decades, it's been trouble and PM free since before WWI.
97s are not known as the smoothest shuckers, but this one mimics butter. It has taken everything from deer to squirrels and sat behind the door on a Appalachian cabin, just in case.
And while 37s are not range tools,mostly, I know of several that are on third and fourth generation owners and have lots of stories in them we'll never get to hear.
I have lots of input and decades of experience with shotguns. I can recall only a few lemon pump guns.
There was the Noble. Someone had been smoking tar paper shingles when they thought up that mess.
The best description I ever heard of came from a smith who, despite expertise in his field, refused to work on them.
"The Noble is a poorly designed and made hunk of trash that must have been thought up in the Kremlin to frustrate American shooters. Toss this piece of junk away and get you anything else".....
Some of the older Savages were problematic. I can't recall which models at this time. The Browning designs weren't the problems.
Same with the Springfields, owned by Savage.
Early S&W shotguns made in Japan had the rep of being Divas, but the ones I've seen in private hands worked well. As Agency arms, they faded fast.
That's about it, get anything else and you'll likely be happy with it and so will your grandkids.....
BarkSlayer
New member
That's kind of like asking, "How long is a piece of string?"
MagnumWill
New member
+1
If I had to choose, it'd be my 590A1. It takes 200-300 rounds to break the sucker in until the action feels normal.
hometheaterman
Moderator
I think the reason the 870 has a good track record is because the Wingmasters which have been around for a long long time have a great track record. A lot of people I've talked to say how great 870's are when they have a Wingmaster. Others take that to mean all 870's are great. IMO and many others the 870 Express guns just aren't that great in fit or finish. If going with a 870 I'd go with a Wingmaster or 870P only. If I wasn't going to go with one of those I'd pick a different gun.