Which Patriot, Forefather most influenced your life?
- Thread starter longtooth50
- Start date
Washington is the one indispensable man in American history; Without Washington the revolution fails, without Washington the Constitution fails.
Of the rest, Adams, Franklin, and Paine would be on my go to list if we had to start over. Adams' wrote the Constitution for the state of Massachusetts and it is a model for the US Constitution. His treaty with the Dutch legitimized the baby nation on the national stage. His ability to get financial and material backing from Europe made sure that baby didn't die in its cradle.
Franklin's contribution to civil society in the form of the lending library would be enough to put him in the history book. Listing his accomplishments would take way too much typing. He was one of the first to suggest that the colonies unite. He was also at the end of his life a vocal abolitionist, clearly a man ahead of his time. Tom Paine is the most problematic of the founders, many people don't even think he was one, yet Adams said 'the war was won with the sword of Washington and the pen of Paine'. Common Sense and The American Crisis were more than polemics. His later work, The Rights of Man and The Age of Reason, a very influential works in their own right. But Paine died a pretty much friendless and in poverty, even his bones were lost in transit from America to England.
Not as big on Jefferson and Madison as some folks are.
Of the rest, Adams, Franklin, and Paine would be on my go to list if we had to start over. Adams' wrote the Constitution for the state of Massachusetts and it is a model for the US Constitution. His treaty with the Dutch legitimized the baby nation on the national stage. His ability to get financial and material backing from Europe made sure that baby didn't die in its cradle.
Franklin's contribution to civil society in the form of the lending library would be enough to put him in the history book. Listing his accomplishments would take way too much typing. He was one of the first to suggest that the colonies unite. He was also at the end of his life a vocal abolitionist, clearly a man ahead of his time. Tom Paine is the most problematic of the founders, many people don't even think he was one, yet Adams said 'the war was won with the sword of Washington and the pen of Paine'. Common Sense and The American Crisis were more than polemics. His later work, The Rights of Man and The Age of Reason, a very influential works in their own right. But Paine died a pretty much friendless and in poverty, even his bones were lost in transit from America to England.
Not as big on Jefferson and Madison as some folks are.
CGSteve8718
New member
fat old gun nut said:
That was not originated from Jefferson; like FireMax said, I believe it came from Voltaire.
I'm still learning about that era so I don't know that many founders aside from the ones that stand out and the ones named the most thus far. I have read some Thomas Paine and would definitely include him in my list.
I would agree that some don't think he really is a founder, but the revolution would not be the same (or would not have happened) without his writings. It is a shame that he died friendless and poor. After helping to ignite the American revolution, he received virtually no support from Americans in trying to do the same to free Europe.
I don't know why Lincoln and Jackson were mentioned earlier, they don't count as their time was almost a hundred years later.
You have to remember that this sort of thing had been going on for generations in the South; some of these slave women had only one great grandparent who was Black, the rest of the involved paternity being slave owners...but the South rigged the definition so that they were still considered slaves.....some of these were women who were as white as Jefferson himself, and if you didn't know the family background, you'd assume they were white.
As for the issue of Jefferson fathering kids with the woman in question, I believe thats been settled through DNA testing.
I don't knbow how anyone can claim that a slave having sex with their owner was at all consensual.
From the legal defintion today, not able to give consent, becuase you are not able to refuse. But none of us lived at Monticello (sp) and we don't know the full details of thier relationship. So we cannot have a full understanding of thier relationship.
But for me the Founding Father who said and did it all, was Washington. General, Statesman, Surveryor, Bussinessman, but also innovative farmer (crop rotation), he experminted with different varieties of plants.
He also set the standard by which all others who have held the exuctive position have been judged, limited himself to two terms when he could have been President for life. Stopped a coup against the Continental Congress by some of his officer.....
Mike Irwin
Staff
John Adams.
And Thomas Jefferson WAS an ass of monumental proportions.
And Thomas Jefferson WAS an ass of monumental proportions.
Mike Irwin
Staff
'As for the issue of Jefferson fathering kids with the woman in question, I believe thats been settled through DNA testing.'
Actually, not 100%.
The testing only says that someone in the Jefferson line fathered children with Sally Hemmings.
Some Jefferson descendants accept the argument that it was Thomas, while others are adamant that it was Jefferson's brother or nephew.
Actually, not 100%.
The testing only says that someone in the Jefferson line fathered children with Sally Hemmings.
Some Jefferson descendants accept the argument that it was Thomas, while others are adamant that it was Jefferson's brother or nephew.
Mike Irwin, the issue of their being no direct proof it was Jefferson will not stop anti-Americans from trying to diminish the worth of this great man. He may have been an ass (your words not mine) or maybe he wasn't, but he left us with a wealth of writings about the importance of Liberty which we owe him a great deal of gratitude for.
copenhagen
New member
Plus about One Million!
Well stated FireMax.
I would have said that Jefferson was a consummate hypocrite... But I can go with your description.Mike Irwin said:
Having written that, I will also say that he was also a consummate wordsmith. The ideas that he presented, in the manner he presented them, are still worth the study. Too bad he didn't really believe what he wrote...
Hugh Damright
New member
What did Jefferson write that he didn't believe?
The Adams family. They are my forefathers. Pretty much a direct connection to John. Since Sam was a second cousin, I guess he could be dangling on a limb somewheres on the family tree.
Interestingly, the name Paine is prominent in the family, but there isn't any found connection to Tom.
Interestingly, the name Paine is prominent in the family, but there isn't any found connection to Tom.
Show me his writings wherein he believed the Federal Government had the authority to spend the funds to purchase the Louisiana Territory... I'll wait.Hugh Damright said:
GoSlash, at what point did Jefferson emancipate his slaves?
Jefferson wrote a great deal on the powers of the Judiciary and its limits. He hated the decision brought about by Marbury v. Madison. Show me the proposed Constitutional Amemndment (authored by Jefferson) which would have curtailed the power of Judicial Review....
There are a great many things that Jefferson wrote, that was contradicted by the man's actions. None of this detracts from his espoused ideals. It merely reflects upon the man himself. Hypocrite.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
many of the 'notables' as most I very much admire. but the signers of the DOI that were ruined or even died during the rebellion for their actions are every bit as 'notable' IMO. and also Daniel Morgan, the mule-skinner General that may well have turned the tide of the war against Britian with his victory at Cowpens at a pivotal time. I live just across the S.C. state line from the site.
Firepower!
New member
From an Alien!
Howdy
Like most of you probably know by now I am what you would call an Alien! Yet, since I studied in the US for over a decade, I could not resist this thread. My favorite American forefathers inlcude: Ben Franklin, John Adams, and John Jay.
Howdy
Like most of you probably know by now I am what you would call an Alien! Yet, since I studied in the US for over a decade, I could not resist this thread. My favorite American forefathers inlcude: Ben Franklin, John Adams, and John Jay.
AP,
Virginia law.
He emancipated his slaves at the earliest possible moment as far as I can tell.
I don't think anybody here is claiming the guy was perfect by any stretch, but I think he would be thrilled to know that slavery is dead and gone. He was abolitionist when abolition wasn't cool.
You may not be aware of the fact that at the time emancipation was illegal.
Virginia law.
He emancipated his slaves at the earliest possible moment as far as I can tell.
I imagine you're not a big fan of Judicial review either. Show me a proposed amendment (written by yourself) curtailing it. That's pretty weak.
I don't think anybody here is claiming the guy was perfect by any stretch, but I think he would be thrilled to know that slavery is dead and gone. He was abolitionist when abolition wasn't cool.