Which is more of a stretch: .223 rem for whitetails or .243 win for elk?

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Having seen first hand what a .223 loaded with 60 grain Nosler Partitions will do to the vitals of a deer I would have no qualms using it again. Would I be willing to take a 400 yard shot with it, no I would rather have more horsepower for that shot. I still keep wondering why if so many hogs are killed with .223's why would it be tougher to kill a white-tail with one, simple answer it isn't. Some years ago on another forum a gentleman from California had the opportunity to take his daughter on a special elk hunt, he was somewhat concerned that she wanted to use her .243, shot would be 100 yards or less, and he would be with her the whole time, overwhelming consensus was, load up some 100 grain Nosler Partitions, let her practice, sharpen your knife and charge the camera batteries. he later posted some nice pics of her elk. Bullet selection, shot placement and reasonable distance.
 
Which is more of a stretch: .223 rem for whitetails or .243 win for elk?
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Depends on who's hands either caliber rifle is in. A patient well sighted and experienced shooter will always make his first shot his best and most accurate regardless of the caliber in hand. So does it mater which caliber is or isn't the most appropriate. It becomes a judgmental or perhaps a common sense call amongst us commenters whether we ourselves could or could not do.
 
Though I feel both are on the light side for the game intended, with the right bullet and good shot placement they can get the job done
 
both would work with a head or neck shot.as for a heart shot forget the .243 on anything bigger than carabou. as for the 223,the swift sciracco is available in a 67 grain in .224 dia. or 5.6mm and a 75gr. fmj military AR type bullet would likely work on smaller deer and pronghorn

but can you get a hunting style .223 with a rate of twist fast enough for a 65 or 75 grain bullet.22 centerfires usualy go as follows

varmint 1/14 to use 40 or 45gr

predator 1/9 for 50 or 55gr


AR or M16 1/7.5 for the 75gr fmj

you would need a custom rifle or AR15
 
I personally am of the train of thought that if you are confident with it and know when not to take a bad shot then go for it. I personally live in a region with average sized elk and above average whitetail. I wouldn't hesitate to take a 223 for deer but due to the average range that we see elk at i would feel undergunned with a 243. Now if I was guaranteed to see one within 200 yards i would feel fine with a 243 and some 100gr bonded ammo but I'm not so i don't
 
let me ask another question

what if we through the .240 wby into mix 100 barnes X for elk or moose ?

my home state vermont has no elk but there moose minimun is .257 bore rifle or 12ga slug gun.i think a .240 wby would drop a moose at 55 yards in vermont
 
from what I've read moose aren't nearly as tough as elk. i have a question to add to your question.
would a 110gr bullet travelling 2600FPS from a 25-06(257 diameter) be able to kill a moose better than a 105gr bullet fired from a 240WBYmag travelling 3000FPS?
 
With proper bullet placement an elk will drop with a 22lr. As a teenaer I saw my dad dad kill an elk with a 38 special. It had been hit by a car and was trying to run off but its spine was broke and its backside would not move. 1 shot to the base of the skull and it dropped instantly. I acknowledge that there is a difference in a kill shot at 10 feet and a typical elk hunting distance or 100-200 yards on a healthy unwounded animal.

I have hunted both moose and elk. I am much more afraid of moose. Moose are huge and more aggressive. As far as toughness, its hard to tell all animals will drop given good (or lucky) bullet placement.

All that said. Bring enough gun.
 
I have also hunted with a 22-250 for whitetail although faster than the 223 the damage with a neck shot and 55 grain bt is impressive to say the least probably about the same result. As others have said if packing a little light use a well constructed bullet and make good shots and you will have no issues
 
from what I've read moose aren't nearly as tough as elk. i have a question to add to your question.
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Elk aren't very tough. There are just a lot of hunters that like to shoot them in the guts or hind quarters, and then complain about how hard they were to kill. :rolleyes:
 
"With proper bullet placement an elk will drop with a 22lr."


I disagree with the premise that there is any "proper bullet placement" on an elk with a .22lr.
 
I took my first and only deer about 20 years ago now on my grandpas farm with a mini 14 and some of my uncles 55grain soft point. Range was about 100 yards it wasn't a huge white tail, but normal good sized one. I don't remember the weight as I was 14 or 15 at the time. My uncle used a 22-250 for white tails for 20+ years.

Shot placement and distance are key IMO. A little 223 or 22-250 is no joke. Speed kills. Would I attempt to take that shot today at 200 yards? No. I wish Ohio allowed high powered rifle for deer hunting. I don't hunt deer as I am normally out of town during shotgun season and not much of a muzzle loader. We are allowed to use handguns 357 and larger with a 5" or 6" barrel. They claim Ohio is too flat for big or high powered rifles. I'd feel much more "equipped" with a 223 on a sub 250lb whitetail at under 125-150 yards that I would with a 357 pistol at 60-75 yards.


We don't have big elk here... I've seen a lot of deer wounded with .243. Again, shot placement and distance are key variables that determine an ethical game shot. I'd take deer with 223 where as I'd not take a elk/moose/Sasquatch with a 243.
 
"With proper bullet placement an elk will drop with a 22lr."


I disagree with the premise that there is any "proper bullet placement" on an elk with a .22lr.
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I have seen an elk killed by a 22lr about 15 yeas ago. It was hit by my (wife was driving) truck. I was unfortunately not sure of the laws for dispatching and elk and used the only gun I had with me. Ruger 10/22. Dispatched it just like a cow. Shoot where the hair spirals on the forehead. I went and told fish and game and ended up with a fine. They threatened to revoke my hunting license for several years but they did not follow through with that. Still the fine was bad enough :(

Should one shoot an elk with a 22lr or even a 243? Nope but dont ever say it wont do the job with perfect bullet placement.
 
Man that really sucks that they gave you a fine for what I would consider a humane act. I think that you did the right thing putting the animal down and then calling it in. I am sorry you got fined for that.
 
Idiots. Dispatching a struck animal at zero range for the purpose of mercy is simply NOT the same as hunting that animal in the field. The type of cartridge becomes irrelevant at that point.

Back to the main thrust of the discussion, I was leafing through Nosler's 3rd-edition reloading manual this afternoon and what should I find but that the intro piece on the .243 Winchester is almost entirely about the pros and cons of using the cartridge on elk (granted, the manual was published in 1989 and a lot has changed since then in terms of bullet design and terminal performance).

The writer, one Grits Gresham, began the article by saying "The .243 Winchester cartridge isn't intended to be used on elk, and I don't recommend it for that purpose." However, he also went straight on to describe a friend of his doing the deed fifteen times in a row on bull elk with one shot apiece with no animals lost. He qualified this by describing that his friend was a very good shot, all the shots being at "modest" range (he does not state what this is, unfortunately), on a stationary target, and not being taken until certain of a double lung puncture. The bullet, however, is specifically described as being 100gn weight.

Take from that what you will. Personally, if someone offered me a tack-driving .243 with appropriate loads vs. my 3 MOA milsurp with 215gn softnoses for my first hunt, I'd take the milsurp and either get in close enough or pass up the shot.
 
Agreed. Putting a wounded animal out of its misery with caliber x isn't the same as shooting animal X while hunting. Perhaps that example was a bit of a stretch for the .223/deer vs. 243/elk comparison, but it does show that elk are not iron-clad tanks.

That said, I've never personally chatted with anyone who bragged of hunting with a .243 to prove that they could take an elk with an underpowered round. I think that most elk hunters think about bringing home the game first and bragging as a distant after thought. Elk tags are too precious. Marginal hits turn joy into despair very quickly My first thought when I take a shot with a 30-06 that doesn't feel like a good hit is:"$%m, if I scuffed this shot, I'm going to be playing 'connect the blood dots' for the next 3 miles until 2 in the a.m."

Are there people out there who do try to do that? Maybe, but they probably don't haul out their own quarters (if they have ever been elk hunting).
 
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I wouldn't think that a 223 would be a stretch for most Whitetails, the few Whitetails I have killed, I threw over my shoulder and carried out.

243 for an elk is pretty light IMO. It does meet the minimum caliber requirements, at least in CO, I would consider it under-powered for all but the most ideal shots, which I never get. I personally hunt elk with a .338 Win Mag, never lost one and never ruined any meat;)
 
You certainly haven't hunted Northern deer... You're not throwing them over your shoulder unless they're 6 months old (even then it's a stretch most of the time) or you're He-Man.
An average doe is over 100lbs field dressed and can go 150, while bucks go ~125 up to 225+
 
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