Which is better to have for self defense,

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At arms length? Give me a halberd or a SMLE with fixed bayonet. People have been indoctrinated by decades of movie special effects to think that firearms are the ultimate in stopping power, but at arms length, a halberd can cut a person in half. The amount of force, in pounds, that a person with a fixed bayonet can impart, is orders of magnitude higher than any handgun.




I have been reading threads of hog hunting with bowies. A big knife in the heart lung area causes very quick death, guys report the pigs just drop. You can find the pictures. Don't discount the lethality of a knife.

A guy within arms length with a big knife is no joke!
 
Your point is taken; my point was directed, I suppose, more in terms of people assessing the risk from a knife, rather than contemplating its use for defense. "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" works for the majority of attackers, but can go wildly astray when you encounter someone serious about a knife.
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DT Guy,

Strong agreement. Knives are serious weapons, and knife attacks nothing to dismiss or hand wave away. Glad to hear you came through your own events unscathed.

pax
 
Slamfire,

Just to note, a human adult male's heart is almost always less than 3 1/2" from the surface of the skin; be afraid of 'little' knives, too. :)

Larry
 
I've posted a few times of a young strong man who got into an altercation with an old man. The latter took a paring knife and stuck it into the young man's chest - who then dropped stone cold day. DTR!
 
some jurisdictions wont let you have a knife in your pocket unless you have a chl permit thing. so if you go through the training to carry a gun, why leave it at home?

In this discussion we have already come to a conclusion. for a knfie to be truly effective, it needs to be BIG BIG BIG. and ideally be called a sword or dagger.
very few jurisdictions allow asword or dagger in public.
 
I would say a firearm would be the better option also. You never know what situation you may be in which is why it's nice to have a CHL. For all we know, if we choose a knife, we may be "bringing a knife to a gun fight." Who knows what the other guy has.
 
In this discussion we have already come to a conclusion. for a knfie to be truly effective, it needs to be BIG BIG BIG. and ideally be called a sword or dagger.
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If you believe this to be the truth, Id highly suggest you do some research and/or get some basic training in using a knife as a weapon.

Many major blood vessels in the human body are no deeper than an inch and a half (1-1/2"), and some as close as a quarter inch (1/4") below the skins surface. With an elevated heart rate (think youll have one in an encounter like this?), the "slowest" major bleeder (radial artery in the wrist), if not immediately attended, will leave you unconscious in about two minutes, and dead in three.

Wit just that one cut, what are you going to be doing in the middle of a fight for those two to three minutes? Do you even know how bad off you really are?

Besides the bleeding issue, those blood vessels are also surrounded by muscle and tendons that when cut, will take away the ability to grasp/use a weapon, lift an arm, or even the ability to remain mobile.

You dont need a Bowie knife to be dangerous, a 3"-4" blade is more than capable of inflicting major, if not deadly damage, and quickly too.

Again, I know this is a gun board, and the gun tends to be the solution to "every" problem. If thats all you got, you may be in for a big surprise, if the gun fight in your head, doesnt go as you have planned. Unless you have some other skills in your bag, youre most likely not as well off as you might think.
 
As with all tactics, it depends on the situation presented. When I'm walking through a mall parking lot, it's easier for me to conceal my folder in a closed hand than keep my hand on the gun in my pocket. When I'm at the school I work at, I can't carry a gun; so the knife is my go-to.

While none of us here can afford the money & time in training to become Snake-Eyes, we should work to become familiar with both the gun and the knife as SD weapons.
 
Again, I know this is a gun board, and the gun tends to be the solution to "every" problem. If thats all you got, you may be in for a big surprise, if the gun fight in your head, doesnt go as you have planned. Unless you have some other skills in your bag, youre most likely not as well off as you might think.
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AK, . . . you are 100% correct in that statement, . . . no argument.

BUT, . . . if I have a choice of my 1911 or a knife at anything beyond bad breath distance, . . . I'll opt for the gun. I'm too old for fisticuffs or knife fights, . . . and can't run.

He might cut me, . . . and it really might be bad, . . . but I'd rather take my chances with a knife cut than 9 each 240 grain hollow points. I've just got a sneaking suspicion that I'll outlive him even if he cuts me real bad.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Dwight,

Im 100% with you on the firearm, and I do carry one, and it would be my first choice in most situations.

Im not advocating using the knife over the gun, just pointing out that the knife can be and is, just as much a deadly weapon as the gun, and shouldnt be though of as a lesser weapon, and treated lightly. That old thing about bringing a knife to a gunfight is cute, but could be deadly for you, if you buy into it without knowledge and understanding of both.

For those who want an enlightening and interesting quick read on some of the knife stuff, check out "Contemporary Knife Targeting", by Grosz/Janich. At the very least, you might come away with thoughts on areas to protect and how to do it, if things do go south.

Janich also has some interesting videos on YouTube.
 
Lots of old saying still hold pretty true.

heard "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight", agree, pretty much. One I haven't heard here (yet) and that I always thought was pretty accurate also;

"The winner of a knife fight goes to the hospital, the loser goes to the morgue."

Knives are deadly, no mistaking that. Knives don't have to be big to be deadly. But unless you are skilled at throwing them, knives are not dangerous beyond contact distance.

Which is why knives are not as good a deterrent to a determined attacker as a gun.

If an attacker is at arms reach before I realize I am under attack, and I have no weapon in my hands, they I will use the weapon that is always on the end of my arms. Hands. And everything else nature provided, to get enough time to draw a weapon. Gun preferred, knife if no gun, pen, keys, anything as I can.

A wise fellow once told me "never hit a man with your fist unless you are stark naked and both feet are nailed to the floor". Took me a while to figure out just what he meant (not the literal meaning).

Guns are very, very useful for self defense. Knives are very useful for cutting things. Cutting things can be an effective defense, but takes more skill and physical capability to be effective than a gun does.

If I have a gun, I'm going to use it, over a knife. If I only have a knife, I'll use it over bare hands. If I only have bare hands, by preference, I'll use my feet. I prefer the Miyagi defense when ever possible.
 
To quote Pax;
"I have done quite a bit of force on force and other types of training with a trained "knife guy." My observation has been that nobody can attain that level of skill from one or two weekend classes, and very few people will put in the effort it takes. Those who have attained that level of skill know who they are, because they have worked to get there and they know what they themselves can or can't do. The rest of the folks reading this thread, the ones who are wondering – they are not that guy. They will fit easily within the norms shown in the statistics."

I started training in martial arts when I was 12. I was shooting when I was 8.
I got a LOT more training later as a US Marine and later still working for DOD in both improvised weapons and firearms use.

I have now been training men and women to fight since I was 24 years old, and I am now 57. So I have been using firearms for 49 years and been practicing martial arts for 45 years, and training others in those skills for 33 years.
So I have learned a bit about it.

PAX is correct in her statement!

I would point out one more time that this whole discussion is about fighters and NOT about the kind of weapon used.

It's always going to be an issue of training and mindset FAR more than it is about the kind of weapon used.

I say again from my earlier post

There is no inherent virtue in a weapon.
The virtue and abilities are in the man or woman.

The knife or the gun are just tools.
Tools don’t DO work,
they are worked with.
 
Hurumph...

If I don't have a gun (or my gun is inoperable) I'm gonna use whatever comes to hand.

It may be a knife. It may be a rock. It may be my elbow. If I'm at work, it may be the big honking handle of the plastic flexilead, or it may one half a pooper scooper.

If your attacker is within arms reach, then you better already be fighting with whatever you've got. It's not a point in time to get picky.
If you want to be picky about your self defense, then you have to be prepared. So if you want to depend on a knife, best get some real training now.

I'd prefer to depend on a heavy gun that I can use as a bludgon if it fails to fire, and baring that, the fact that I'm mean enough and stubborn enough fight tooth and nail and hope for the best.

There are no garentees.
 
Which is better to have for self defense, a gun or a knife at arm's length distance at night?
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G1R2,

I can see the Jim Bowie fans thinking about his duel in the warehouse when he fought a guy and under the terms they would come at night and in stocking feet.

Any weapons was allowed.

He, of course, brought his famous knife.

But, that was in the flintlock days, and times and weapons have changed.

A gun has the advantages of being good at any range, close or far. One does not have to slash or stab or even reach out toward someone. Just turn the barrel by a flick of the wrist and fire, repeatedly. It can be done from the hip, or in retention. Can be aimed at the legs, pelvis, on up to the head. One can fire a gun at arms length from many attitudes.

I'd just take a sub-compact Glock.

Deaf
 
If I don't have a gun (or my gun is inoperable) I'm gonna use whatever comes to hand.
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The question wasn't whether or not to use a knife if that's all that comes to hand. The question was:

"Which is better to have for self defense?"

Given the choice between a handgun or a knife for self-defense, it would have to be a strange set of circumstances before the knife would be a better choice.
 
Sorry, it can be hard to pick up on that kind of thing sometimes from the printed (typed) word.

I actually really like knives. I almost always have a knife or two on me. I also believe in carrying a knife for self-defense because it beats fingernails and teeth as a backup or for when guns aren't available.

That said, I'm very aware of their limitations. I used to fence in another life, and I have also spent some time doing knife sparring and both left me with a lasting and strong hope that I never have to rely on a knife for self-defense. They can save your bacon, but the outcome won't be a happy ending unless you get very, very lucky.

I actually know of one person who killed an attacker in self-defense using his knife. He eventually committed suicide as a result.
 
Knives have other benifets that merit having one on your person all the time, anyway.
It's not unreasonable that someone should have a handy knife in a SD scenario.

All my practical SD training is with firearms.
Other then that, the only thing I know is to be mean, go for weak spots and use whatever you get your hands on.

I know that any attacker that comes after me is going to be bigger, have much more upper body strength and my only advatage is going to be that if he's intrested in rape rather then just outright killing me, he's not trying to kill me when I'm trying to kill him.

Therefore, I tend to be a little snippy when it comes to what I perseve as a more "macho" approch to self defense. SD is about putting down a threat as quickly and as effeciently as possible, which is where a gun comes in handy. Always.

Again. There are no garentees. The best we can do is give ourselves the greatest advantage possible.
 
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