Which HD Shotgun

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I am in favour of this 20 ga Mossberg 500 I posted an Picture off.

Shoots fine birdshot and awesome anything else. I lowered just 2 birds from a distance of about 10 to 15 meters with this open choke gun using #1 birdshot.

Seems Mossberg has fixed it's issue with the stop bars.
Using buckshot should you get a hit in an defensive Situation (at 25 meters all #4 Buck hit in an 10" circle) without big Training. Being an pump Action gun further reduces the Need of Training.
Automatics I do not recommend for defensive use since there is a too much variety of ammo. Specially if you prepare your own defensive ammo, as I do, the ONLY way to go is with an pump Action.
Automatic shotguns are way better in quick Shooting but it does you any good if it Fails to load (specially if you make or modify your ammo).

Best Thing of this 20 gauge caliber is it's recoil. It has considerably less recoil than an 12 ga since I have no headaches anymore Shooting an shotgun. Shooting an 12 ga I get headaches; Shooting this 20 gauge no headaches are present. I am about 60 Kg of weight. The gun is actually 3.05 Kg (6.72 lbs).

I recommend this model for smaller People, lighter People, women and elderly/younger People. Don't mess your Body up with an 12 ga gun.
 
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1. if you are unsure about pulling the trigger when your life or the lives around you are in danger - don't get a gun.
2. If you don't practice you won't be effective.
3. knowing your gun, how it handles and all the features requires that you handle it a lot.
Don't get a gun to feel better, get a gun to use it and get good with it.
 
I'd like to point out Guy that not all shotguns and loads will pattern 10" in everyone's shotguns, people need to pattern their own ammo in their own gun. I personally use a 12 gauge mossberg with 18.5" barrel and 00 buck. To each their own. Training is important as well, for me personally that means tactical carbine and tactical shotgun courses complete with low light scenarios and awkward shooting positions. Also weapon mounted lights are great HD items to have.
 
I've seen pictures of two super short pistol grip double barrel shotguns and now I want a super short pistol grip double barrel shotgun...
 
25 rounds is enough practice with a pump? Bull" I have two shotguns, a double barrel and a pump, with over 30,000 rounds down the double and 10,000 through the pump, and get a kick watching guys miss skeet shots time after time with their pumps; especially doubles and I am the first to admit that it is hard for me to shoot doubles with the pump, since I rarely take it out anymore.

By the way, I would practice shooting double more with the pump, if it was still a primary defense gun, but it is not. For that I have gone to a 9 mm. which is backed up by an 870 pump, and if push comes to shove I haul out the dedicated skeet gun.
 
It is true what McCracken says.
But maybe it is better just stay to the hardware discussion.

Or had anyone of you ever shot an human person?
I have not.
So in that very moment I would not know if I would pull the trigger.

I do not believe training with the shotgun can overcome the psicological effect not to shoot at an human even if self defense is justified.

So in that light I believe a box of 25 rounds is enough training to rack 'em one in the face if you hear something strange at nigth. If you can pull the trigger then a box of 25 is training enough.
Over here one shot birdshot #5 has killed people.
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This advice could get you killed. If you are not familiar with it, chances are you may fumble it during a stress situation.

Do you know the spread pattern at 15 feet?

What is your actual plan of action. If you have to think before you type then you've done it wrong and need to revisit it.

You don't have to constantly train for household defense, but you should practice with your shotgun - both in the abode, and actually firing it sufficient to be familiar with it. This is not difficult-besides shooting clays is some of the most fun you can have with a firearm.

Shooting skeet with birdshot is not shooting 00 buck.
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This is true. It is however 1) trigger time; 2) unlike most range time shooting at a moving target; and 3) I've found it to be far more difficult to find a location to shoot buckshot at targets vs. shooting clays. One can find clay shoots even in the firearm limited paradises of Britain and Canada. Reality often limits desire. :(
 
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Shooting skeet with birdshot is not shooting 00 buck.
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No but it'll teach smooth and smooth is fast.

I wouldn't recommend a pump shotgun if you aren't willing to put a 1000 rounds down range.
 
This. When folks talk about an HD gun getting low use, they're overlooking something vital, which is that if you're going to rely on a weapon for defense, you need to train, train, train with it until running it under all sorts of conditions is automatic. We're talking about hundreds if not thousands of rounds.

That ain't what I call "low use."
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Your defense guns should be getting the most use of any of them.

Consider this too. What is your home defense plan? Are you going to barricade in the bedroom or clear the house? If your going to hunker down in the bedroom with 911 then a shotgun will be fine. Same if you keep one handy in case the back door smashes in.

For clearing though (bad idea) a shotgun can be easily grabbed from you if you're ambushed coming through a door or from behind a piece of furniture. The bad guy is going to be awake and on high alert. He'll probably know you're coming and may plan to ambush you. A pistol may give you a better chance for retention. And put a light on it!
 
Putting a light on a home defense gun does two things;
1. since your eyes are already adjusted to the low light it can hurt your view
and
2. it tells the intruder exactly where you are.

Neither of these things is a good idea. my eyes are accustomed to the light level and I know my home. In order to be bright enough to blind the intruder your light will be too bright for your use.

Practice is necessary for any defensive gun. You should be intimately familiar with whatever gun you choose. That being said, a shotgun takes little time or practice to be good with it. They are harder to accidentally point in the wrong direction and easy to point in the right direction. Shooting a standing intruder is infinitely easier than hitting a four inch disk traveling at 30 mph. At the ranges in a home there will be little spread in the shot pattern whether you are using 00 buck or #9 shot. Both will stop an attacker. The buck shot will easily travel through walls - interior or exterior while #9 shot is unlikely to penetrate an exterior wall. I tested my load in fabricated walls myself to find out what happens. My 1-1/4 ounce load at 1400 fps from a cylinder tube 20" long will penetrate an interior wall but is stopped by a third layer of drywall. That load will not penetrate an exterior wall unless you are extremely close to the wall. It will penetrate 8 inches of water in a devastating display of carnage. (in a Fackler box) 00 buck will easily penetrate two interior and an exterior wall or two exterior and an interior wall. The 00 buck load will penetrate to 15 inches in water and tends to spread out more in the same gun. Slugs will go completely through a house or a car and are a bad choice for home defense in my opinion. I am not saying you should do it my way because it is THE ONLY WAY or that you shouldn't do something completely different. My way is just that, it's the way I do it and no better or worse than any other way for someone else.
 
I've seen pictures of two super short pistol grip double barrel shotguns and now I want a super short pistol grip double barrel shotgun.
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Well, here's one that just hit the market. American Rifleman Online did a review and range report this month. Check it out.

Best feature is you do not need to obtain a $200 tax stamp to own it. :)

.410/.45LC Howdah.


I'd have preferred this in .20ga, but I'm sure that would have complicated matters ... :rolleyes:
 
The .410 double does not require a tax stamp, but retail pricing on it is $1400!
They ARE neat guns, though.
 
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Shootist, You assume that the intruder doesn't shine a flashlight in your face. No way can I agree with the use of #9 shot and will leave it up to you and others to read the many posts and articles on the subject. Suffice it to say that while the 9 might stop an attacker, which is more likely to stop them. #9 or 00 buck? Consider that an intruder may be wearing a heavy jacket and be hopped up and feeling no pain. Heck, it takes 3 or 4 pellets of #9 just to break clay.
 
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And you don't have to turn your weapons light on, if it isn't needed. However, if you don't have it and do need it you are S.O.L. And don't expect the guy to go flop if all you have is #9. I suppose you never thought about what happens if your night vision is disturbed or for some reason you can't clearly identify the person who appears to be the intruder.
 
Even though it would not be my first choice, I imagine a face full of "#9" would be quite incapacating. Maybe not bang flop but bang scream holler and flop around. I worked a shooting where a man was shot in the face with #8 at close range. Not pretty. Still makes me want to throw up just thinking about it. He was not dead, but had I been him, I would rather have been dead.
 
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