Which Cartridge?

>>This aint the 1900's anymore get a GLock kid. Revolvers are for
>>hunting and cow boy action shooting not much else.
>>PAT

Sigh. Is it a full moon out or sumthing?

There are plenty of revolvers that are FAR superior in accuracy compared to a Glock. In addition, revolvers are more well versed for many different tasks. Whether you're shooting competition, hunting (which you can't do in most states with a Glock) or personal defense, the revolver is a time proven firearm. To knock somebody for wanting one only shows tabula rasa.
 
Well, my first centerfire handgun was a Glock 21. I've owned the 21, 23, 24, and 27, as well as a 20 slide and barrel. I like them for a lot of reasons, and I believe the longer-barreled versions in .45, 10mm, 9x23mm, .40, and .357 Sig are very versatile.

I own firearms, first and foremostly, because they are weapons. As such, I want my sidearms to be as capable as possible.

The "average criminal" does not frighten me. If you prepare to confront a bad man or two, I am certain a revolver in skilled hands will be effective. It is true that finding powerful wheelguns is easier than finding powerful (useable) autoloaders, and one can use light or hunting loads in a revolver without worrying about things like swapping recoil springs.

I suppose it all come down to what you want your sidearm to do.

'Course, now that I have my Glocks, my next handgun will probably be a .41! :D
 
Revolvers are so out of date that yesterday I left two Glocks and a 1911 at home and toted my 625-4 all day at work. If six rounds of .45 didn't do the trick, then the five rounds of .44 Special in my back-up should have allowed me to fight my way to a shotgun. ;)
 
Tamara you have such a way with words... ;)

I am MUCH more accurate with my revolvers than any semi-auto beyond 50 yards. One of my favorite pastimes is long-range rock shooting, and I wouldn't even consider using a semi-auto.
 
Yes, revolvers are so very 20th century. Sheesh.

I like Glocks and appreciate them for their durability and light weight, but eight of my ten handguns are revolvers. The revolver is a reliable and proven weapon, and it has some advantages over an autoloader. (Of course, the semi has its own particular advantages as well.) Nobody who knows anything about combat handgunning will seriously claim that a revolver toter is any less well armed or less capable than someone carrying an autoloader.

Besides, in the end it all depends on the quality of the operator. I'd be more scared of someone who can make one-hole groups with his .38 snubbie than of some kid who shotgun-patterns his target at 7 yards with a Glock and a bag of 15-round magazines.

Nightcrawler,

have you considered a .41 Magnum snubbie? I think a Lew Horton 657 with a 3" barrel would be the proverbial deal for CCW and for general coolness factor.
 
ArmySon

My glock 31 can shoot 2.5 inch groups at 25 yards my sig 229 sport can do 1.0 thats better than or equal to any revolver I have shot. Revolvers do hold a slight accuracy edge I will give you that but how much of a value is it compared to the huge weight and capacity difference and the fact that revolvers are not so easy to fire accurately when fired in DAO mode. Revolvers are fine for hunting and for plinking but all the worlds militarys and police forces can't all be wrong the Auto is the king of the gun fight. Also in a gun fight with multiple opponents (whichs is the case in 80% of a most shootings today) the revolver is not ideal. If you have to do a failure drill half your ammo is gone heaven help you if you miss.
PAT
 
"If you have to do a failure drill half your ammo is gone"

??? You just pull trigger again. How does that get rid of half your ammo?

"heaven help you if you miss."

Hasn't shots fired gone up as opposed to more hits with police shootings? I think BrokenArrow brought this up here or on Glocktalk.

"Also in a gun fight with multiple opponents (whichs is the case in 80% of a most shootings today) the revolver is not ideal. "

Do you have any type of cite for that?

"Auto is the king of the gun fight"

I would say that it was the survivor irregardless of what he carried or didn't carry.
 
??? You just pull trigger again. How does that get rid of half your ammo?


Perhaps I was not clear. I was not talking about a failure to fire but rather a failrue to stop which is 2 rounds to the chest one to the head.
PAT
 
failure to stop

Stopping someone shouldn't take more than one round of .357 Magnum, assuming you even have to fire. 90% of attacks are ended the moment the criminal sees that his intended victim is armed. He runs away. The Mozambique drill was intended in case the first shot doesn't stop the attacker. Usually, the first round will stop him. If it doesn't, you add a second. Maybe one out of ten thousand will someone acutally take two rounds center of mass and keep coming. And if he has a buddy, Mr. Buddy isn't going to stand there while you're doing this, either. If his friend is getting pumped full of lead, he'll probably retreat.

If you're really worried about it, why not simply train to aim for the head with the first shot? Problem solved.

I've never bought into the school that believes you're better with more, less powerful rounds. I've heard some people say you should carry fifty rounds, an entire box of ammo, with you each time you go out. In a Glock 17, that's three magazines, assuming you can find three preban mags. If you're limited to ten rounds, that's FIVE magazines.

Some say you need to prepare for anything. That's impossible. What if your badguy is wearing body armor? What if instead of getting attacked by two, you get attacked by ten (a gang)? You think the survivors are going to sit there while you shoot each one of them three times? What if instead of pulling his gun on you, or telling you to give him your wallet, he simply shoots you in the back of the head and THEN takes your wallet? Come on. Your 15, 17, or 20 round high-caps aren't going to do you one bit of good in the "worst-case" scenarios, because in those scenarios, you CAN'T win.

There are some situations you just can NOT win. This is why you strive to avoid those situations as much as possible. Assuming the mentality that "I want to be able to walk through the worst neighborhood in town at 2AM on a saturday night during a full moon, when the police are on strike, when the power's out and there's rioting, and not have to worry" will probably get you killed.
 
Nightcrawler,

I respect the choices you've posted as being promising in this thread. We all have slightly different takes on this, but here are some of MY ideas:

I will not produce my sidearm unless I am in the process of bringing it to bear, so my assailant will have virtually NO time to run, as this would also be time he could be attacking me- in other words, if I cannot disengage, I will present and fire. I do not think the vast majority of threats will have time to assume "non-threat" status before perforation.

It is hard enough to hit COM under stress, much less CNS with a handgun.

It rather sounds like you're saying that powerful hunting rounds should be used for defensive purposes. I would comment that platforms for more powerful rounds are also heavier and more difficult to conceal; that heavier recoil from a handgun will greatly slow your ability to address multiple threats, or correct that shot that "couldn't" be missed; that your own flash and noise impulse may essentially remove your ability to fight effectively during the time periods when you will face your stereotypical, statistically mandated criminal attack that will cease once 2.3 rounds are expended.

If you fire COM-twice- and the threat is still a threat, one transitions to either pelvic shots or aims the next round at the cranial "box" (in some schools, a triangle). This is pretty basic instruction. Try doing this, quickly, with full-bore .357 loads.

What if attacked by a gang? Well, I remember, a few years ago, a group of citizens with concealed arms were confronted by a gang wielding firearms within twenty miles of where I sit. One citizen used movement and shooting skills to engage the gang, at no injury to himself. (Only one other citizen even got his firearm out before the shooting was over.)

Let me remind you that the Alamo was not "won", if you believe victory is always equal to survival. [I would counter that the Alamo was OVERRUN, but that the Texans did, indeed, win, because their objective (slowing the Mexican advance to the degree that the main Texan force could close) was accomplished.]

We must define winning very carefully. If you define it (as I do) as doing the right thing, I hope to always win.

As far as what we WANT, I WANT no crime at all. I WANT no "worse neighborhood", and no REASON for police, no strikes, and certainly no rioting, or power outages.

My best friend happens to have walked unscathed through the situations you describe, at times with the original "wondernine", the Hi-Power. At another time, he was surrounded by dangerous men, while he held only a 5 shot .38*.

In the last case, my friend cooly advised the ringleader of where all 5 rounds would be placed if an attempt on his life were made. In other words, discretion is indeed the better part of valor...but there may be times when we walk through the fire. I will not count on my potential opponents having the good sense not to engage me. In those times, I plan on using what I am comfortable with, and my comfort goes up when I carry more ammo.

Use what works for you, but be sure you've tried it, before you believe you know. Good luck.


*in this case, my friend had his Charter Arms in his rear pocket, and was "made". He was threatened with robbery (which would have certainly ended with his death, I believe), because he only had that .38. If my friend had been wearing clothing that allowed carry of his Hi-Power, the ringleader might have been a little less eager to taunt him about what he could accomplish "with your five-shot revolver".
 
I certainly don't think that we should all start carrying Desert Eagle 50s and Super Redhawks around. However...

...you seem to be implying that unless you have a high-cap, you're underarmed, or could be. Well, this is always a possiblity. What if your attacker has a shotgun or a rifle? I'm not going to be convinced until more TFLers start trading in their carry revolvers and 1911s for higher-capacity weapons, I'm afraid.

I, personally, still want no part of any of the "WunderNines" out there, with the possible exception of the Hi-Power, simply because, like the 1911, it's an elegant weapon, from a more civilized era (right, Obi-Wan?) and it was designed by John Browning. The rest...well, they simply don't appeal to my sense of style. Many of the black and tactical crowd don't understand style. It's their loss, I guess.

Me, being the unabashedly vain person I am, want a gun that's effective, but also different, stylish, and attention-getting on the range (assuming we had a range here in Calumet, which we don't.) For some reason, nice revolvers appeal to my sense of style, as do certain autos, like the 1911s and the Hi-Power.

But gawrsh-durnit, everybody has 1911s these days. NOT everyone has Dan Wesson .41 Magnums with smooth cylinders and 4" barrels. You get the idea.
 
Perhaps I was not clear. I was not talking about a failure to fire but rather a failrue to stop which is 2 rounds to the chest one to the head.
PAT

Do you realize how difficult that is to accomplish under stress? Now imagine doing that with a moving target.

It's hard enough to hit a moving target COM let alone a CNS shot. Try it next time at the range.
 
effective, but also different, stylish...

Well, gosh. I guess we do agree, after all! ;)

Like I said earlier, I will probably get a .41 next. I certainly don't fault you for getting one.

Ain't diversity beautiful?

John
Waiting for the full-size Glock 10mm single-stack!
 
355sigfan sez:
the fact that revolvers are not so easy to fire accurately when fired in DAO mode.

You mean there's another way to shoot my N-frame? I'd look into it, but it's so accurate when fired DA. Mastering a DA wheelgun trigger just takes time, Pat, and once you do, all other trigger types are a breeze. :)
 
"the fact that revolvers are not so easy to fire accurately when fired in DAO mode."

Quite a few LEAs issue DAO semis or Glocks with heavier than stock triggers.
 
Nightcrawler

Even the great 357 mag and the mighty 45 acp have some very dramatic stopping failures. A handgun is a handgun and they do not stop people like rifles do. There are lots of documented shootings with the 357 magnum failing to stop even after a badguy had taken a full cylinder. This is not the rounds fault nor does it make it a bad round. Some people are just tough. Besides if you have been to any ahndgun training recently you would understand that 2 rounds to the chest is whats called a minimum standard response even with a rifle or shotgun. If he is worth shooting once he is worth shooting twice. A failure drill is whats done after the first 2 don't work.
PAT
 
355sigfan, you are always talking about Glocks being so great. I love the Glock 17, but I have shot revolvers (old Colts and S&Ws) that had a better DA trigger. They're longer, but lighter, and if you can control the gun, you can fire them accurately.
 
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