Which caliber for my girlfriend

JTReloader said:
I was thinking 6.5 creedmore then I came across the 7mm-08 and was settled! Until I learned that it kicks like a mule in light guns...
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I think that statement is inaccurate. In fact, I think the 7-08 is the perfect answer. I have a Tikka T3x in 7mm-08 that weighs 7.4 lbs with a scope and sling. My 11yr old son shoots it with only slight complaint... but he shoots it repeatedly so it can't be too bad... and this is a boy who has literally "scoped" himself with a pellet gun and a .22LR.

I personally despise recoil. I do all my deer hunting with either a .243AI or a 7mm-08 Pro Hunter handgun and bought the T3x specifically for elk. I won't hunt with high-recoil guns. If an animal requires it (and very few really do), I'd rather not hunt that animal than use a high-recoil rifle.

Barnes TTSX or Hornady GMX bullets in 7mm-08 would be near perfect.

My #1 suggestion though is to let her pick. She'd be better off shooting a .243 (yes, they can and do kill elk) she loves that a 7-08 she hates.
 
Wyosmith-
What is your opinion of the 200 grain Sierra Game King for elk, fired from a .300 Win Mag? Is it satisfactory, or would you rather use a Partition or one of the other bullets you listed in your post?
 
No one has mentioned the Howa Mini action, so I will.

The Mini action is offered in 3 chamberings: 223, 6.5Grendel, and 7.62x39.

The 223 is the only one I have fired, but the 6.5 Grendel seems like it could be suitable.

From what I have read the Grendal is considered quite useful as a hunting round. The claims of excellent accuracy in this rifle seem credible. The metric designation is 6.5x39mm.

No one suggested it so I thought I would.
 
the possum said:
Wyosmith-
What is your opinion of the 200 grain Sierra Game King for elk, fired from a .300 Win Mag? Is it satisfactory, or would you rather use a Partition or one of the other bullets you listed in your post?
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I'm not Wyosmith, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a time or two. ;)

I would not have any issues using that bullet, but realize that the Sierra isn't as tough as some other bullets. You'll probably have a core and jacket separation, but that bullet has mass and it won't be impacting at blistering speeds. However, with all that said it'll surely kill an elk as long as you do your part.

handlerer2 said:
From what I have read the Grendal is considered quite useful as a hunting round. The claims of excellent accuracy in this rifle seem credible. The metric designation is 6.5x39mm.
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The problem is the "up to elk" that the OP is looking at for his girlfriend hunting. 6.5 Grendel is a great round but not one I'd readily suggest for elk hunting. The biggest problem is the case overall length. The magazines that the Grendel is usually restricted to doesn't allow for the best bullets (usually a max of 120 grains) for hunting elk. It's a great cartridge for deer in an AR or Howa/CZ mini action, and while it can surely kill an elk it's far from ideal.
 
My comments were intended to be applied in the context of the OP. If someone can't handle the recoil of a .308 class cartridge in a hunting rifle and wants to use something significantly less powerful, they should consider the limitations of a lesser cartridge.
 
Possum said:
Wyosmith-
What is your opinion of the 200 grain Sierra Game King for elk, fired from a .300 Win Mag? Is it satisfactory, or would you rather use a Partition or one of the other bullets you listed in your post?

I have only used that bullet as a practice bullet in my 300, and I never killed anything with it, so I can't give you an honest answer.

I would say however, if in doubt, go with the Noslers 200 in Partitions or AccuBonds or 220 grain Partition. I KNOW how well they work and the Sierra is an "unknown" to me.

The Sierra is very accurate in my Mauser 300H&H and I like it for my practice rounds. It is far less expensive then the AccuBonds or Partitions, and that lets me fire several hundred a year in practice without breaking the bank.

I bet it would work, but probably not as well from quartering angles. That's my guess because I have used and seen used the 180 grain Sierra GKs on elk deer and once on a moose, and I am going to guess the 200 grain is probably made from the same thickness of jacket, but I could be guessing wrong there.

So if time and money are issues to you on your elk hunt, go with the Noslers.

If hunting them is an every year activity you might try the Sierra, but if I ever do that, I'll load the mag with Noslers and one Sierra in the chamber. If I don't get a "flop-over" I'd shoot my 2nd round, which would be a Nosler. That's only if curiosity gets the best of me. I do try various bullets, so as to have a broader base of knowledge, as I did with 170 grain Hornady SSTs in my 8X57 3 seasons ago (bad choice for elk) but if you are doing a hunt of a lifetime, you can't go wrong with a Nosler Partition.

If I know what a certain bullet will do from using it myself or being next to a hunter who does, and I get to gut and butcher the animal I am 100% comfortable saying what I have seen in print, doubter and haters be damned. But if you ask what I think of one I have no actual first hand knowledge of, I will also tell you the truth, as I have here, and say I don't actually know. If you use one please report the details to us all.

There is a gent here on this site who used a 180 gr Sierra (I think it was) a few years back and killed an elk with it, and having seen that bullet used a LOT I told him before hand what to expect. He got his elk, but the bullet did what I said it would do, and now he's a believer in Nosler partitions. He'll tell you that his results did the job, but not super well.

I don't condemn them, (as I do Burgers) but I can say there are many better choices.

The other side of the argument is always based on the fact that people do kill all kinds of game with poorly designed bullet. I do not deny it at all. Nothing you can hit an animal with from any high powered rifle is "safe" for the game and all bullet will kill. But that is similar to saying all cars can carry bricks. Yup, sure can. But a 3/4 ton truck simply does it a lot better then a Yugo.


The fact that many people kill game with bad bullets is not an argument that those bullets are just as good as those the also kill the game well, but hold together and give 100% penetration even when the angles are sharp or the bones are hit.
There are far too many variables to be 100% dogmatic, so we have to look at the average and the over view.


So ------------------- that's the basic overview.

Happy hunting.
 
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BBarn said:
My comments were intended to be applied in the context of the OP. If someone can't handle the recoil of a .308 class cartridge in a hunting rifle and wants to use something significantly less powerful, they should consider the limitations of a lesser cartridge.
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A .308 Win shoots a 180 grain bullet at 2600 FPS, the 6.5 Creedmoor will shoot a 140 grain bullet at around the same speed. All things being nearly equal, the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet with its higher SD will penetrate further on average than the .308 Win. It does this with less recoil than the .308 Win. So if a .308 with a 180 grain bullet is suitable for elk then surely the 140 grain out of a 6 5 Creedmoor is as well. Having a smaller diameter bullet isn't as limiting as most people think.
 
I keep forgetting that the 6.5mm/140 is a magic bullet. It's 6% greater SD means it essentially equals the 15%-19% greater muzzle energy, 28% greater weight, 16% greater diameter, and 23% greater momentum of the .308/180gr. All with less recoil to boot.
 
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Got an idea. You probably have friends with different rifle cartridge's. Take her out with them and have her shoot their rifles and choose for herself what she want's to shoot. Hate to say this as I'm not a big fan of the 243 as a big game round but, it it was all I had and legal, it is in Oregon, I'd not hesitate to use it on an elk! I strongly suspect that given the right circumstances, my 22 RF will kill and elk as dead as anything, just not legal! Don't get into the get down loaded ammo for the rifle she can't handle, get something she can handle!
 
Handler2,

None of your mentioned cartridges would fit the bill for an elk cartridge.

As for lighter bullets in the 7mm-08, i've heard of people using a 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip successfully on elk.
 
BBarn said:
I keep forgetting that the 6.5mm/140 is a magic bullet. It's 6% greater SD means it essentially equals the 15%-19% greater muzzle energy, 16% greater diameter, and nearly 50% greater momentum of the .308/180gr. All with less recoil to boot.
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I know it seems like I'm singling you out, and I kind of am. You bring some valid points about using larger bullets, but I've yet to see definitive proof that it kills animals any better. No the 140 grain bullet isn't magical, it's just the appropriate bullet for the job of hunting elk.

In terms of penetration, it will perform as well if not better than the same style 180 grain .308 bullet going through the same type of animal if impact velocities are similar. It won't impact with as much energy nor will it make as big of a wound channel, but put in the proper place to take out the vitals and it will perform as effectively as it's larger counterpart. Like I said earlier selecting the right bullet construction for the job is important, much more so than the diameter.
 
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Well, I just read this entire thread, and feel I have gained yet a bit more knowledge.
Also making me wish I had hung onto that old Swedish Mauser I once had that was chambered in 6.5x55. :(
 
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The 7mm-08 is an excellent choice in a light bolt rifle. But; any 6.5mm medium length cartridge will be fine. (260rem, 6.5x55 6.5 creedmore)

For elk a higher sectional density bullet is needed. in 7mm 140 gr min. And better yet 6.5x55 would be well with 160 or less I suppose like 130 more/less. They dont kick that much. The woman can start out light with deer and build her confidence or stay home for the big stuff. It would be preferable to hand load a heavy bullet milder than use too light a bullet at factory speed. IMHO, as always.

Did any one mention hand loading the ammo. This is an perfect example where that would help out. Not the usual penny savings or way to kill time but for a real need.

Edit: I just remember Hornady offers "light" ammo in select calibers. That could help. I dont know. maybe worth a look.

The grindel is too low power. The AR-10 builds are too heavy to carry. The 257 roberts is more shameless pimping.

Ballenxj, Yes, I wish I could reverse a few bad decision like that too.
 
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I do see a lot of shooters crowd the scope. Bad habits learned with the first rifle like a 22lr or 223. Those are very forgiving of bad form.

Get her a good long eye relief scope and forget the 400 yard stuff. Lower magnification is fine. Think clean kill at closer range. Teach her to hunt as well as shoot. More OPINION, fwiw.
 
Any hunter should be conserned with their bullet performance first and the amount of powder second.

That being said, get her a rifle, add to that rifle a GOOD strap that she can carry the rifle across her back with, or better still attached to a GOOD pack. A 10# rifle should be no big deal. Then get a well designed brake on that rifle, or better still a suppressor if possible, best muzzle break there is. Back it all up with a good recoil pad thats fitted right and she’ll be out shooting you in no time.
 
"What caliber for my girlfriend?"

Well, that depends... How hard do you think she would be to take down?

:p

That said, you've got a difficult set of parameters to work with.

Light rifle, low recoil...

You could go two directions...

Something like a 6.5x55 or a 7x57 with heavy bullets.

Or...

A more standard caliber chambered in a gun with a muzzle brake like the Browning Boss.

My suggestion?

.308 with a muzzle brake.
 
I've never been a big fan of 6.5C really just because I never saw a personal use for it. However, I do think it fits the bill here.
 
Using the chuck hawks table, we see 308 win at 18 ft lbs. I would target a round in the 8-12 lb range.

6.5x55
257 Bob
7x57
7-08

All of those can kill elk at normal recoil levels.
 
"Something like a 6.5x55 or a 7x57 with heavy bullets."

That's the point I was hinting at when I suggested the 7-08 loaded down the 7x57 velocity.

Case in point, a few years back the late gun writer Finn Aagaard told of how his father armed with only one rifle, I'm thinking an original 95 Mauser in 7x57 for all his shooting chores. The only load he used was the 175/175 gr. round nosed bullet at roughly 2300 FPS. He used the rifle not only for stock protection but shot game from the small antelopes to the Cape Buffalo with that rifle. :eek: (not me) His father once took one two cattle killing lions with one shot each with that 7x57 and that slow moving 175 gr. bullet.

I load my 7x57 to match the 7-08 but the reverse is true. It shouldn't be too hard to shoot a 160 gr. bullet to the 2400-2550 FPS range and keep recoil within reason. Should work fine on elk to about 200 yards, maybe a bit farther. You could also use a Nosler 150 gr. to about 2600 FPS for a bit more distance and little recoil. The 7-08 may not be able to tale 175 grain bullets due to magazine restrictions but a 160 gr. would be close to perfection.

That old 7x57 killed an awful lot of game in Africa back in the day and built a solid reputation on some mighty big animals. That's how I would go about it if I were in your position. Let her pick out the rifle she's most comfortable with in 7-08, load to match the 7x57 and let her have fun. ;)
Paul B.
 
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