Which bullet for defensive ammunition?

@9MMand223only,

So what we want is a link to a bullet that states "this product no longer in stock"?

I can find that without a link. :D
 
kilotanker22 said:
So, I am getting ready to buy a couple thousand hollow points to load for 9mm defensive ammunition. I know I don't need that many, but I practice often with my carry ammo, and with the current market, I cannot afford to buy defensive ammunition in the quantities I would like to shoot it. I can load it much cheaper.

The two bullets I am trying to decide between are the Hornady XTP and the Nosler sporting handgun bullet. My load spits out 115 grain XTP bullets a shade over 1200 fps in my 4.5" guns and 1170 from my Glock 43x. Both are comparably priced too.
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I am firmly in the crowd that says "Do NOT carry handloads for self defense."

With that established, I fully agree that the price of commercial self-defense ammo today is sobering, so I am all in favor of loading practice ammo that replicates the internal and external ballistics of my carry ammo as closely as possible. That means I don't really care how well the projectiles expand while making holes in paper or not making holes in steel plates, but I want a similar=shaped bullet so I know my pistol feeds, and I want the same wight bullet and muzzle velocity both the get the same recoil energy at the gun and so the POI is going to be close to that of the commercial stuff.

I'm a 1911 guy, so I shoot .45 ACP. My carry ammo is Remington Golden Saber (which is not called Ultra Defense, I believe). I found that Berry's hybrid hollow point in the same bullet weight has a profile that's VERY close to the Golden Saber, and I can load it to the same COAL ... so that's what I do. My suggestion to you is to look for whatever bullet has the same weight as and matches the profile of your carry ammo, and choose that for your practice bullets.

But I only use it for practice, not for carry. YMMV.
 
std7mag said:
@9MMand223only,

So what we want is a link to a bullet that states "this product no longer in stock"?

I can find that without a link. :D
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I linked it as soon as it came in stock. Those bullets are top tier, and what this guy wanted. They pass all protocol tests, and are dirt cheap.

it was like..I don't know...$100 for 1000, shipping free.

They were 4 types in stock.

Hornady 135 Grain FlexLock
Hornady 115 Critical Defense
Federal 125 HST
Sierra/SiG V-Crown 124

The 135 Flexlock or the Speer Gold dot G2 is what are best overall I think.

This site has them for 10 cents each or so. Unbeatable deal on this planet.
 
I think that I would prefer to stay with new bullets, of all the same weight and variation. Pretty much everything they sell is demileld and lots consist of different profiles if they are even all the same weight.
 
Give them a try. You will save a ton of money. You have to practice with something. It makes zero sense to buy all retail.

What you would do is buy like 200 brand new, load those for your stash, then buy 20,000 from American Reloading of same bullet, and use it for practice your entire life for the cost of plated.

That makes sense.

Also, they are all "new", I should know, I have about 40,000 total, and they are REAL GOOD. I would carry it no issue, some lots are pristine as new. I tested them vs new, and there is zero difference. because they are new. It doesn't make sense not to buy them for at least practice, its totally illogical and just throwing money away. Shipping is free too. unreal deal. Crazy they have stock, people have lost their minds. This is near too good to be true deal, I been buying for years, and people still have not woke up and still sleeping. Seriously nuts.
 
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9MMand223only said:
Give them a try. You will save a ton of money. You have to practice with something. It makes zero sense to buy all retail.

What you would do is buy like 200 brand new, load those for your stash, then buy 20,000 from American Reloading of same bullet, and use it for practice your entire life for the cost of plated.

That makes sense.

Also, they are all "new", I should know, I have about 40,000 total, and they are REAL GOOD. I would carry it no issue, some lots are pristine as new. I tested them vs new, and there is zero difference. because they are new. It doesn't make sense not to buy them for at least practice, its totally illogical and just throwing money away. Shipping is free too. unreal deal. Crazy they have stock, people have lost their minds. This is near too good to be true deal, I been buying for years, and people still have not woke up and still sleeping. Seriously nuts.
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Laying it on pretty thick eh?
 
kilotanker22 said:
So, I am getting ready to buy a couple thousand hollow points to load for 9mm defensive ammunition.
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There's a school of thought that says you should only load factory ammo in a defensive gun.

The reason is that at your trial, it removes the anti-gun district attorney's ability to charactderize you as a malevolent explosives expert who was hell-bent on slaughter.

His rationale and evidence for this characterization would, of course, be those needlessly lethal death-loads you concocted late at night in your basement-- two of which ended up as a double-tap in the actor's chest...
 
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9MMand223only said:
buy now, don't pass go.
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I have bought from them before, and probably will again. What I really do not like is companies who have shills that go around various forums to promote their products in annoying or exaggerated ways. You sir may not be a shill, but your language suggests otherwise. I appreciate your input, but give it a rest man. This is one of the reasons I moved away from companies Like Arken optics and Outlier.
 
WmMunny said:
There's a school of thought that says you should only load factory ammo in a defensive gun.

The reason is that at your trial, it removes the anti-gun district attorney's ability to charactderize you as a malevolent explosives expert who was hell-bent on slaughter.

His rationale and evidence for this characterization would, of course, be those needlessly lethal death-loads you concocted late at night in your basement-- two of which ended up as a double-tap in the actor's chest...
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I doubt that would hold up in court, especially since the burden of proof is on the state. I could just as easily argue that I was simply trying to replicate industry standard types of defensive ammunition, and doing so because price and availability have been sporadic. I would argue that my ammunition is loaded within published data and uses the same components that would be used in various factory ammunition. I would also argue the reason for this type of ammunition over ball ammo would be that it is designed to expand, and will likely not over penetrate. Thereby mitigating the risks involved to innocent bystanders in the event that I had to use my weapon in self defense.

With a decent attorney, a prosecution would have a hard time arguing that point, as long as my conduct was honorable and justified. I say let them make the argument. We saw in the Rittenhouse trial that the prosecution tried to use Kyle's choice of ammunition as a way to imply that he was careless or reckless in his endeavor, because that type of ammunition was not meant to expand and posed a significant risk to bystanders. I think we have seen historically, that this argument is not as much of a threat as some believe. Would a prosecutor use that to attack me? Sure, but he still has to prove to a jury of my peers that it was true.
 
They could just as easily argue that point with factory loaded ammunition. Let's say I was using Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P ammunition. The prosecution could easily argue that my choice to use an expanding bullet loaded to a higher pressure was because I wanted my ammunition to be more lethal than non expanding, standard pressure ammunition. Which, is true I guess. Isn't the whole point of using an expanding bullet to cause more damage to end the threat as quickly as possible, and also to mitigate the risk of over penetration?

There are so many holes in that way of thinking that a reasonably intelligent person could pick apart their entire argument.
 
Good point, this is why reloaded ammunition is same as commercial ammunition. In addition to the thing Kilotanker22 said.

They will argue this as well.

1) "He chose 45 ACP, etc you name it, not standard and very powerful. He had intent to kill somebody."
2) "he chose longer barrel, higher velocity, intent to kill somebody"

But I think everyone is missing the main point, that you all know is true.

Leftists don't give a ()*&*( about the law, or your rights, they will argue ANYTHING, unethically, and DO ANYTHING, to nail you to the wall. This is a fact. it doesn't matter if you carry a .22 or a 500 S&W. You are getting the book tossed at you, cuz they hate you.

This is completely obvious.

Secondly, if you reload carefully, using exact components from commercial ammunication, such as speer nickel plated brass, with their primers, and 124 grain gold dots. You cannot tell the difference between reloads or commercial easily.

thirdly, it is completely legal and normal, to buy "reloaded" ammunition from anyone at a gun show, as many, many companies sell reloads.

However, all this logic and legal this and that, means nothing, because what I said about leftists stands. They will make up fake laws, and unethical arguments, deceive, propagate lies, to lock you up. All of you know this to be true.

Sorry Killotanker22, I am not a shill. But when the same things are 10 cents and retail they are 30 cents, and its the exact same thing, I just think its smart. I want you to prosper, practice more, bring your friends, and the cheaper you can do it, the better for you and your friends.

I wish you the best, just trying to help.
 
9MMand223only said:
XTP is better I would say. ALso, the Nosler bullet loads at a very short OAL, because the round ogive is very fat, and it hits the barrel, so max OAL with it might be like 1.060 or something very low. The XTP's load to 1.100.

basically, you want 147 XTP's if you can get them, but any XTP is a top tier load.
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Midway is clearancing 147 XTP for like .15 or .16 each. Ordered 1200 yesterday.
 
kilotanker22 said:
They could just as easily argue that point with factory loaded ammunition. Let's say I was using Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P ammunition. The prosecution could easily argue that my choice to use an expanding bullet loaded to a higher pressure was because I wanted my ammunition to be more lethal than non expanding, standard pressure ammunition. Which, is true I guess. Isn't the whole point of using an expanding bullet to cause more damage to end the threat as quickly as possible, and also to mitigate the risk of over penetration?

There are so many holes in that way of thinking that a reasonably intelligent person could pick apart their entire argument.
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A decent judge will not allow the ammo argument in criminal case. It could come up in a civil case. If you want to avoid a civil case, make sure the perp dies. As far as criminal case goes the standard that must be met is that deadly force was justified the entire time it was used.
The type deadly force, unless it was illegally possessed, is irrelevant.
 
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